Forums - Advanced CvS: Tactics and Techniques Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Advanced CvS: Tactics and Techniques (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4366) Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 30th, 2001 04:21 AM: OK, this is a request for help and also and offer for help. We all know that CvS(and all SF for that matter) is about fake out and mind games and whatnot. We talk a lot about strats such as which pokes to use and good combos.. but what are your actual tactics and techniques? When you do get in, how do you like to mix up the opponent and keep on the pressure? What's your fav way to tick? etc etc etc I will offer some tricks of my own. Some of these may be common knowlege, but I figured if Im gonna ask you guys, I should offer some too.. Remember not to use these techniqes too much.. it's their INFREQUENCY that makes them work.. they must be unexpected! 1. Fake meaty w/ straight up jump. I love this.. if you get near a downed opponent quickly and they like to pull wakeups, jump straight up and throw out an attack.. but time it so it just BARELY misses them, then block. If they start to delayed get-up, time it accordingly. 2. Slow poking. Sometimes you're up close and want to throw out, say, crouching jabs. The inclination is to throw them in a very fast flurry. But I like to mix that up and slow it down.. sometimes that gets them thinking they can counter, but when they try to retaliate, they walked right into the next jab. Helps you control the pace.. but again.. do this when you know you can! 3. Use moves a vehicles. Blanka is a fav of mine to do this with. Use his jab ball attack as a method of "dashing." Just for the purpose of mixing them up. U;d b surprised how many epople u can tag w/ a jab ball into quick jump RH. But mainly, use quick special moves as methods of movement. Another great example.. balrog's dash punches.. if u get em timid, dash punch so u JUST miss then throw! 4. Ticking.. this isnt anything new to lots fo you, but how fun is it to jab someone and they block it, then just walk up and throw them? LOL thats why epople claimed "throws are cheap" but really just just didnt know how to deal w/ that technique. I LOVE throws. 5. Missed or faked jump kicks. I love to jump at an opponent and either throw my kick purposely too ealy, or not at all, then land and throw. 6. Repetition. This is a dangerous one.. but like I said earlier.. use these techniques very very seldom. This one wont work unless it's entirely unexpected. But what u do is just the same thing over and over. See, the biggest hint in SF is to NOT do the same thing over and over.. so when u get to a level where that is gospel.. then suddenly repetition becomes unexpected! (weird, huh?) So every 5 games or so against my bro, I will throw him, then walk up and.. throw him again! He doesnt expect me to do some shit like that, so i do it. Kinda like my DP-sprees. Every now and then I will just do like 3 jab DPs near a guy.. u'd surprised how ofen one of em hits.. I mean what idiot throws 3 dps right next to a guy, right? There are shit loads more, but I want this thread to b interesting so I wont make it very long. But what are some of ur guys' best tactics and techniques? How do u like mixin em up? Another cool one... when u are comboing.. skip the last hit or 2 of ur combo.. then throw! Man i love throws LOL Later! -Jesse "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by LittleMajik on March 30th, 2001 04:34 AM: This tactic is kind of like your fake jump in one. If I've downed an opponent with Kyo I fake like I will crossover with short right when they get up. Most likely they will try to block it. I in fact do nothing in the air and when I land they are blocking high so I am free to do two crouched shorts, crouched fierce, then his rusting eight combo or whatever it is called. It's good free damage. If you are a real hawg, you could just combo his Level three off of the two shorts. Simple as that. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 30th, 2001 04:41 AM: Yeah, I love fakes involving crossups! 2 more good techniques.. Crossup. if its blocked, start ur "blocked combo" sequence. but after the 1st or 2nd hit, crossup again! Dash over a fallen opponent so you're on the other side of them. Great for faking. 2 cool things u can add to that technique is 1. throw out a quick jab 1st, so they see it coming even less. 2. Do it twice.. switch up on em, then do it again. If u do that sparingly, it's always worth a "huh?" from ur opponent and thats what u want. Both of these tactics are great w/ EX Terry "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by LittleMajik on March 30th, 2001 04:48 AM: Do you mean roll through them? Only the characters that have like hopping dashes can cross over while someone is grounded, I think. But, yeah, I do that too only if someone has a short roll like Terry's, Ryu's etc. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 30th, 2001 04:51 AM: Yeah, not everyone can do it w/ dashes.. but Terry, Nak.. Rolling is good too depending on the roll. King's and Yamazaki's are fun. I like to roll into throws.. its risky tho "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by LittleMajik on March 30th, 2001 05:05 AM: Oh yeah, I like to hit people with the first two hits of Kyo's rusting eight, then throw them. It does hella cool damage and nobody ever sees it coming. I adopted that one from Valle when I seen him do it at the Feb. Folsom tourny. Posted by emagius on March 30th, 2001 08:03 PM: Zoning. In my playing style (relatively low damage, hit & run), forcing the other character back is great. Obviously, this isn't going to work against someone much more skilled than you are, but I feel that it's a valuable tool to move the match in your favor. High priority, low damage, safe moves are great for my purposes. Force the other player to take risks while you play safe and punish mistakes. Hmmm... that's really general, isn't it? Oh well. =) One of my favorite moves in CvS is Ken's [air] hurricane kick. With it, he virtually insures that the other character can't jump, no matter where he is on the screen. The air HK is also fairly safe and is an excellent cross-up tool, once you get the hang of how the arcing system works. And it's also a decent tick -> throw technique (not great, but decent). Cammy's also great at putting pressure on many opponents. Her short spiral arrow is a very useful move to throw out (from the right distance), and her cannon spike is a very nice anti-air. Standard standing/ducking ticks are also great, especially as they snuff so many moves in CvS. =) Best, --(e)magius Posted by illusion on March 30th, 2001 08:31 PM: littlemajik..??......like in "in living color?".....that's funny....good shit Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 30th, 2001 09:15 PM: Good call on the air HK... I never really use it to crossup(tho I probably should), but I do use it a lot to snuff jumps, like u said, but also to confuse opponents by jumping forward and doing it at the apex of my jump. I fly far over them and am on the other side of them. Works well when unexpected Another good trick depending who you're playing against is to dash in then crouch block. Many people will try to retaliate("He just dashed at me while I'm standing?") then punish their failed "punishment." "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Jinmaster on March 30th, 2001 09:55 PM: Hm, in A3 and CvS, I've found that if you jump straight up from a sweep-distance and throw out a move, a lot of people will jump at you when you descend, and that lets me jump up and hit by priority-poke for free. -Micah Posted by cheese_master on March 30th, 2001 10:36 PM: One strat that I like to play mind games with is with ryu and ken's backward tigerknee Hurricane Kick... I use it to distance myself from the opponent a whole screen's length and start to then dash forward and hopkick till I am within sweeping range. Once within sweeping I either roll through a hard attack or uppercut or I roll and throw or do a combo out of the roll. The whole Hurricane Kick thing is to create a sudden difference in space... making my opponent rethink his strategy because now I a screen's distance away. Once I do that I close in on him quick... using dashs and hopkicks... either he responds with a fireball (that I can block or roll) or he waits for me. That hopkick is to make the opponent think twice about the sweep once I get into range... usually they dragon punch... that allows me to set up for my Shin Shoryuken or any super. If they just jab... then I dash and dragon punch, if they do nothing... I throw. I guess its not really a trick but just a strat. The best mind games come from when Nak is on her bird... especially against turtling guiles... I just keep moving in and out flash kick range... they think I am going for the dive... so they stand up... they lose their charge, and I get of the bird and go for the jumping crossup into the standard combo. On a side note... I was wondering since I just started playing this game like a month or two ago... with throws... does it matter with what button you break with their throw? Is there anyway to read a throw coming after a blockstun... or is it a complete guess? Thats all I really wanted to know. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 30th, 2001 10:43 PM: That's some good stuff. That's why ive always felt Shotos are so potent. They just have SOOO much shit they can do. Add in an Akuma air fireball and it's even worse(better)! No, it doesnt matter what button you tech a throw w/. And if it does, then Im the luckiest guy alive cuz I tech almost any throw attempt, usually because I am the one throwing them(did I mention I like throws? LOL) Another cool tactic on the subject of air fireballs.. I actually havent tried this in CvS but its great in SF3(Im sure it or something close to it works for CvS).. just straight up w/ Akuma and throw an Air fireball. Land and do the appropriate distanced attack. Ive seen overhead LP's, standing HP's, crouching HK's etc. "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on March 30th, 2001 11:32 PM: A few things I want to get cleared out. Can anyone define these terms? I kind aknow what they mean, but I want to be completely sure: -crossup -meaty attack -wake up -whiff -poke After I get that straightened out, I'll post some of my meandering strats =P Posted by LittleMajik on March 31st, 2001 12:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by illusion littlemajik..??......like in "in living color?".....that's funny....good shit I didn't think anyone knew! Oh yeah, this works with any shoto. when you anticipate crossups, just dash backwards and shoryuken. I usually get Nak users like that. Posted by jchensor on March 31st, 2001 02:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hero A few things I want to get cleared out. Can anyone define these terms? I kind aknow what they mean, but I want to be completely sure: -crossup -meaty attack -wake up -whiff -poke After I get that straightened out, I'll post some of my meandering strats =P Crossup: An attack that hits an opponent after you've jumped over them. Jump attacks like Ryu's Jumping Roundhouse, Cammy's Jumping Short, Guile's Jumping Short, Vice's Jumping Short, Ken's Jumping Roundhouse, and Zangief's Down+Fiece are examples of moves that can be used as a Cross-up. Meaty Attack: Any attack that is thrown into the area that an enemy gets up into after being knocked down. For example, if you sweep someone with Chun Li, run up and hit Close-up Standing Fierce (which does her palm attack) so that the enemy gets up INTO it, that's a Meaty Attack. Wake Up: Wake up is a an attack performed right when your character gets up after being knocked-down. Most common wake-ups are uppercuts, like the Shotos' Dragon Punches. Whiff: An attack that misses the opponent. Whiffinf a Jab, for example, is just Jabbing the air. Poke: A move that qualifies as a "pressure" move. They usually either have good range, recovery, or priority. But basically, it's a move that is stuck out for zoning purposes. Moves like Yamazaki's Standing Roundhouse, Sagat's Standing Short, Kim's Standing Short, Vice's Standing Fierce, and Cammy's Crouching Forward are examples of good moves that can easily be used as pokes. Of course, in answering these questions, I probably threw out more things you'll need defined. ^_^ - James Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on March 31st, 2001 10:28 PM: Hey, JChensor... why dont you share some of your favorite tactics and techniques? Ur strats are awesome(and way helpful), but maybe you can spill some of your favorite fakes, etc __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 1st, 2001 01:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by jchensor Crossup: An attack that hits an opponent after you've jumped over them. Jump attacks like Ryu's Jumping Roundhouse, Cammy's Jumping Short, Guile's Jumping Short, Vice's Jumping Short, Ken's Jumping Roundhouse, and Zangief's Down+Fiece are examples of moves that can be used as a Cross-up. Meaty Attack: Any attack that is thrown into the area that an enemy gets up into after being knocked down. For example, if you sweep someone with Chun Li, run up and hit Close-up Standing Fierce (which does her palm attack) so that the enemy gets up INTO it, that's a Meaty Attack. Wake Up: Wake up is a an attack performed right when your character gets up after being knocked-down. Most common wake-ups are uppercuts, like the Shotos' Dragon Punches. Whiff: An attack that misses the opponent. Whiffinf a Jab, for example, is just Jabbing the air. Poke: A move that qualifies as a "pressure" move. They usually either have good range, recovery, or priority. But basically, it's a move that is stuck out for zoning purposes. Moves like Yamazaki's Standing Roundhouse, Sagat's Standing Short, Kim's Standing Short, Vice's Standing Fierce, and Cammy's Crouching Forward are examples of good moves that can easily be used as pokes. Of course, in answering these questions, I probably threw out more things you'll need defined. ^_^ - James Thanks! I always heard these terms, but never had anyone straight up tell me what they mean. So onto some of the biggy questions I had. Effective meaty attacks: I need to know some for Ryu, Terry, EX Vice, Kyo, and Kim. Would Ryu's c.roundhouse count as a meaty for example? Wakeups: I need to know the timing. I'm still not getting wakeup DPs done on command. I'm not sure which frame counts as being 'active' (meaning that you can actually throw out something). Cross-ups: j.roundhouse with Ryu? I always thought that =) Anyway, how can you make crossups as effective as possible? Like I can do em and all, but sometimes I time it too early and my opponent can block. Is that a failed cross-up or a cross-up at all? Team selection: Would putting my stronger characters up front better than putting them in the back, or vice versa? I'll come up with more later, trust me =) Posted by Hero on April 1st, 2001 01:22 AM: oh yah, how about effective zoning and pressure tactics? Knew I'd think of something Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 1st, 2001 03:07 AM: Anything you do to an opponent's sprite as they get up is a meaty attack.. its just a matter of which are effective. Hero.. your pressure game is mainly based on your moves' ranges. You need to know which attack travels how far as which distance.. etc etc... So say you're doing a meaty attack w/ Kim. You can c.LP cLP cLP (always mix these jab/short chains up so as to not be predictable.. I noticed Valle in the vids likes cLK cLP cLP...i think that was it). OK, you've done 3 jab attacks and you have been pushed back some. Now you can do a standing LK, then a crouching HK. If the HK hits, 2-in-1 into the QCB+K, which positions you for another meaty! But again, you have to mix up these tactics.. so for this meaty, try jumping backwards then QCF+K. Eventually you'll get the timing and positioning so you can land this move so you touch their lower legs and are therefore safe if it's blocked and you can continue w/, say, sLK sLK, or whatever.. I will continue this later.. I have to go __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Monkey on April 1st, 2001 03:32 PM: **I ment to put this up on friday, but Ink was changing srk.. ** About the throw tactic, Alot of the time it happened to me cause I didnt realize what was happening.. (A few weeks ago) I have progressed alot in the past couple weeks, I tend to do that alot against people now, if they block my j.short then I'll do Ex-Beni'z throw, or just a regular throw.. I am trying to get all the super combos down. I have been working on these for awhile. I'd just go into training mode, (example) with Beni, and practice c.short, c.short c.short c.sweep xx fireball super. I'm getting it 90% of the time now. I'm also finding things out on my own, or seeing it done in a combo vid, I will try it myself to see if I can do it, and if so, practice it until I can use it in a match. Now that I know about the trick Chen told me, I can do alot more than what I used to be able to. That is a big part of my game. Sometimes I like to flash with my combos, even though it is CvS, put a big super in the combo, and everyone says, "ooo", I like that. Sometimes it bucks me up when I try to hard and then just mess up totally and end up dead. Thats part of the reason why I am trying to get somewhat advanced combos down. I just try to keep aware of what is going on during the match. If I dont, sometimes I feel unconfortable in the situation and then panic. It is happening less and less as I play.. (thank god.. ) As long as I do know what is happening, I seem to do alright. If I loose I blame it on me, and not the other guy who beat me. Reason for this, I make myself get better by practicing more. Say, I missed a combo that would have won for me.. I make sure that I dont miss the next time. Thats about it I guess, I cant remember anything else right now. I'll come back and post again. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by cheese_master on April 1st, 2001 07:37 PM: ThisGuileKillYa.... you love throws huh? Well play Sagat... oh boy does it feel good to get off a mash throw on a level 1 character. Against the comp the other day I got 11 hits on Dhalsim... and it took off about 50%. Gotta love that. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 1st, 2001 08:22 PM: Haha, yeah.. that's also why i tend to play EX Balrog as opposed to normal. Balrog is someone who I love to tick w/, cuz his cLP ticks are very hard to see coming amongst cLP rapid fire into Dash Punches. Also fun.. King's corner throw juggles.. again, touch to anticipate combo or tick.. either way you get the juggle when successful. I think the double strike makes King a superior char to EX, but i find EX King's QCB+K a million times easier to combo into than BDP+K, so I use EX Throws can also make EX Honda's game annoying.. EX Yuri's annoying as it is, but her ticking cause controller throwing amongst DC vet's I also think getting thrown by footsie guys like Kim, EX terry, Kyo, and Yamazaki has good annoyance factor too. You're used to getting pressured to death by them.. it's a slap in the face for your "good defense" to get you tossed across the screen LOL I wish I was faster w/ command throws too. I like EX Beni, but I have trouble ticking into his commnd throw fast enough. Oh well __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 1st, 2001 08:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hero Thanks! I always heard these terms, but never had anyone straight up tell me what they mean. So onto some of the biggy questions I had. Effective meaty attacks: I need to know some for Ryu, Terry, EX Vice, Kyo, and Kim. Would Ryu's c.roundhouse count as a meaty for example? Wakeups: I need to know the timing. I'm still not getting wakeup DPs done on command. I'm not sure which frame counts as being 'active' (meaning that you can actually throw out something). Cross-ups: j.roundhouse with Ryu? I always thought that =) Anyway, how can you make crossups as effective as possible? Like I can do em and all, but sometimes I time it too early and my opponent can block. Is that a failed cross-up or a cross-up at all? Team selection: Would putting my stronger characters up front better than putting them in the back, or vice versa? I'll come up with more later, trust me =) Meaty Attacks: Terry: Close Standing Fierce, his standard combo starter. Alternatively, his c. shorts work fairly well too. Technically, you can use crack shot, but IMO it leaves the open WAY too much time to do a wake up shoryuken. Though I sometimes wiff the crack shot intentionally. Kim: Standing short, crouching short, mainly. Again, if you're feeling ballsy (and have good timing), you can do his aerial bicycle kick, but same problem with the crack shot. Kyo: I'm not an expert with Kyo, but I generally use his df. roundhouse and his c. short. Wakeups: This is going to sound REALLY weak, but wakeup timing is something you have to practice. Seriously, it takes some time to get it just right. Alternatively, another way to get around wake-ups is a delayed get up (2 punches), which causes most meatys to wiff. Cross-ups: Assume you're on the left side of the screen facing right, and you jump over. If your opponent ends up blocking and faces RIGHT, then you've crossed him up. Cross ups are MOST effective when your close to about midscreen away, depending on character jumps and the like (Benimaru can cross up from damn near anywhere, Yamazaki generally can't cross up well at all). It's a good way to reset a footsie game, probably one of the best wake-ups possible, and can be thrown out at random, but DON'T abuse it (unless your Nak). Certain characters are extremely crossover unfriendly, like Guile and Terry, since their anti-airs have godly priority and since they're charges, crossing up doesn't effect the move coming out. Also, crossing up into a Shin Shoryuken is a bad thing. I know that from experience . Team selection: Depends. For example, if you like Terry Zangief, regardless of who you're better with (Assume Capcom Groove), you want Terry first. Zangief simply needs the super more, a lv. 3 Zangief is absolutely terrifying. Also, try to avoid problem matchups by spacing characters out, like Blanka vs. EX-Vice, Yamazaki vs. EX-Mai, and the like. Hope that helps some. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 1st, 2001 10:29 PM: Some more good tactics off the top of my head.. Dhalsim.. this is kinda old school, but anyone who doesnt know it will like hearing it. Jab yoga fire from a distance, then dash fwd quickly and F+HP. If the hits connect, 2 hit combo. If not, they help your long range pressure game Blanka.. I love this one.. If you hit a head bite throw, charge back white biting. After release, do a JAB ball before they even get up, and rapidly hit jab as you do it. They will get up into electricity. Some moves will trade w/ this on wakeup.. some will just get stuffed. If blocked, you end up a safe distance away EX Vice... get to sweep range when opponent wakes up.. do a meaty HCF+LK but do it too early, so you finish the move before they are actually up. The range and move will make them think they have the block/retaliate.. but since you finish the animation before they get up, do a sweep. You will trick a lot of people that way Universal... Dash into sweep. this works a lot better w/ some chars that others.. Terry does this very well.. Mai too. But dash into max sweep range during foot game and sweep. Kinda like the above trick, people may be off guard w/ the low block because you seem so far away King... Her LK tornado kick is a good poke from the right distance. Use it as a surprise ending to some poke strings. Also, double strike as a meaty.. its a no-brainer, but it's 2 chip FB's and high on the annoyace factor Zamazaki... like the above EX Vice technique.. meaty a downward serpent slash from sweep range(far for 'zaki). They will wake up thinking "yeah right," but you recover in time for a surprise sweep Cammy... this technique isnt my discovery like the others.. Chen has been preaching this, but I think it fits well here as its a tactic, nt strat... But do Cannon Drills(I hate the name Spiral Arrow) from the distance where it will BARELY hit, then Cannon Spike the people tho think they have an easy poke I can put down tons more if you guys want. And what are some of urs? Remember, this is about TACTICS as opposed to strats.. the tricks that mess w/ people's heads and allow you to maintain the momentum __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 2nd, 2001 08:05 AM: I'm still trying to come up with a concrete team, so I'm looking at all the different mind games each character can use. Anyone have good tactics with Ryu or Guile? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 2nd, 2001 05:25 PM: I dont have much time for this post, but I can go more into detail later.. Ryu and Guile are very good tactically. W/ Ryu you need to concentrate on his foot game(strategy) in order to bust out the mind games(tactics). This is tru for all chars, but for Ryu it's very important. Make sure you can link his crouching kicks into a fireball His hop kick moves him forward so keep that in mind w/ ur pressure games. Mix up when u bust it out. If u get close and throw out 2 crouching shorts, continue w/ a hop kick.. the next time do it after 1 short, or after 3. Keep everything changing. Ryu also has a good combo/tick game. Crossup RH.. blocked? move in for a throw. Landed? Combo. The tick isnt fool proof, but thats why I stress keeping ur tactics liquid and changing em up. if you cant get close to them or crossup for a meaty, throw a fireball so they get up into it. Superjump hurricane kick for repositioning. Do it twice for some real "what the shit?" points. You can also crossup w/ a hurricane kick, but I never really do that Ryu has a short, fast backwards dash.. so if u trip them up and are right on their ass, back dash as if to retreat, then throw out a cHK, or even a fireball And dont forget the shin shoryuken.. this thing combos off of a lot of stuff. Get in, cLK.. connects? another cLK into Shin blocked? Go for a throw, or continue a blocked string I appologize I dont have more time now.. I'll finish up on more Ryu and Guile later. Why is no one else posting their tactics? Trying to keep em secret or something? LOL Jchen, PSX, Geese... Im sure u have some wicked techniques __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 2nd, 2001 06:17 PM: Guile.. As much as I like Guile and feel that I am quite good with him, he's one character where I know the "pros" play him much better than I do and probably a little different.. ALSO, Chen wrote a good deal about him and even tho he has been writing STRATEGY guides, he basically covered Guile's tactics too(ie. use of his Sobat traps) Guile is good w/ the ticks as well. His jumping short is a great crossup and great tick setup Just mix up your shots w/ sobats, c jabs, c forwards, s HKs, and sonic booms. You start to get a feel for his traps. Remember to fake too. Guile has good fakes.. just be creative. Throw a jab sonic boom so it barely misses on meaty, then go down w/ a low attack. Also, if you are close and ground to ground, follow any connected sonic booms w/ a backfist or sHK Guile's strats and tactics are so closely linked that its hard for me to come up w/ much on him that hasnt been said. Just mix up your attack patterns constantly and maintain pressure. Utilize the fact that the sobat brings you closer to your opponent to mess w/ their heads __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by jeremy jackson on April 2nd, 2001 06:52 PM: cool shit Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 2nd, 2001 07:25 PM: Good call Jeremy Jackson! LOL Thats why Im surprised more of the guys arent putting down some of their tactics. I wanna see em LOL But I can still provide some more tricks if anyone has any char. requests __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 2nd, 2001 07:46 PM: okay, here's how I play Ryu since you want to know everyone's tactics I'm addicted to cross-ups. I always go for em every time I get the chance. Crossup HK to c.lk, c.lk, c.forward to fireball. Or sometimes crossup to c.lk, c.lk, walk up and throw. Or if I have a lvl 3, crossup HK to c.HK to shin shoryuken. Sometimes after a failed crossup, I go for a hop kick, straight to throw, or toss out a few lk's then throw. Anything to keep a guy guessing as to how I'm gonna follow the crossup attempt. After being a blatant idiot with crossups, I kill it all together. If I get a guy down, I'll jump...straight up. If my crossup tactics were effective, just the fact of me in the air gets em scared. They hold block as they get up, and by the time they realize I'm not even after them, I go for a dash to throw. Guile's right: throws are yummie. If you can see em coming you know how to get away. If you can switch up your attack strings, you can always break right away and try a throw. The trick is not to get too throw friendly, or the guy may catch on. Utlilize 'em just enough so your opponent is afraid that you'll do it at any given moment. While they're watching for a way to tech throw, Ryu can take advantage of this mental glitch. Start like you're gonna walk up for a throw, stop just within Ryu's sweep range, and go for the sweep. Very effective fake out. If they see it coming and block, two-in-one for a fireball. Ryu gets pushewd back, doesn't have to worry about major punishment, and the pace of the fight gets put back in neutral. I dunno. There's much more you could do with Ryu, but that's how I use him for now. To me his specials aren't as important as the good range of his HK, the good speed of his s.HP (incredible for punishing anyone walking in for a throw), his hop kick, or his overhead even. Never thought about using Hurricane Kick as a space controller though. I'll have to try that. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 2nd, 2001 08:16 PM: Nice work, Hero. That's basically how I play ryu as well.. except I never go for the cLK cLK into cFK. I know I should, but I wanna make sure my execution doesnt falter so I cLK cLP fireball. Not as damaging, I know.. but Im consistant w/ it. I should practice my cLK to cFK link tho... I agree w/ Hero about the crossups too... but I like to mix that up w/ ground meaties as well. Another good fake w/ Ryu is to dash up close for a meaty and throw out, say, cLP, cLK or 2 cLKs to get em thinkin "low" before they get up. Then do the overhead. That works well w/ Kyo and Iori as well. (but of course you have to be weary of wakeups.. so instead of overhead-ing, block to see what they'll do) I also sometmes use my "use special moves as a vehicle" tricks w/ Ryu too. I will hop kick or LK hurricane as an alternative to dashing or whatver. Anything to keep em guessing __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 3rd, 2001 02:06 AM: The timing for c.lk, c.lk, c.hk isn't too hard. Just try it in practcie first and remember you have to hit hk just as Ryu's leg is coming back in from the lk. Do it while his foot is still out there and it won't work. Or if Ryu's leg goes all the way back in it's too late. After 'watching' what you're doing for a while, then do it according to the timing of the button presses, not the animation frames. After that it comes like clockwork, since instead of worrying about getting the hk out at the right frame, the whole chain just feels like a rythmic button pattern. btw, would c.lk, c.lk, c.hk to shin shoryuken be possible, or would you get pushed back too far for the super to hit? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 03:26 AM: I get what ur saying about the rhythm of the chain.. Im sure I'll have no prob w/ the link.. thanx for the timing help I dunno if cLK cLK cHK xx ShinSho would work, but sometimes im shocked at how much range that vaccum effect has! It may.. if it doesnt, cLK, cHK will work. my money says the 2 LK's work tho Hero, who else do you use? I know tactics for pretty much everyone.. IM eager to trade some __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 3rd, 2001 05:28 AM: Actually I'm floating around a bunch of different characters, so I'll take 'em one at a time. How about...EX Kyo. Anyone who says EX Kyo is a shoto clone needs to be smacked. I used to think the same thing but have seen the light. My main weapons with EX Kyo are c.hk, qcf+k,k, dp+p, and fb+p. My Kyo tactics are exactly the opposite of Ryu's: ABUSE specials. His qcf+p isn't a great projectile, but it can throw ppl off balance. Like toss a lp version, if they roll, go for hcb+k. They practically roll into his throw move! If they block, superjump or dash to start pressuring. Play footsie with c.hk too, but it won't work alone. Mix it up with s.lp, c.lk, or c.lp. Always be on the bead for a throw opprotunity too. =D And if you ever get a c.lk in, go for this little combo: c.lk, qcf+hk,hk, backwards dp+k It's a neat little juggle and can put a guy all the way into the corner. If he is in the corner, you can go for the same combo, but replace the backwards dp with qcb to hcf+p (lvl 3 ONLY). Great way to freak someone out (thanks to Chen's videos for showing me this). Basically you want the opponent to think you control the pace at all times. Kyo can do this with the above combo, his projectiles, and most fo his ticks. I admit to being a weak Kyo strategist though, so anyone with better techniques speak up. =) Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 06:30 AM: I don't have all that much experience w/ EX Kyo because I use Kyo more.. but I think I'm gonna switch to EX for the same reason I went from King to EX King.. easier combos. Sounds scrubby, but I always like to bet on a sure thing. So I do know about Kyo's foot game, but I dont know about Kyo's moves in EX other than FB and DP. Does he have the RED kick? I like to walk around w/ Kyo and when I get to certain ranges, i will throw out an attack that travels the right distance. From close I will go into cLP's and cLK's.. maybe start w/ a sLK to mix it up, but I like to do rapid jab/shorts crouching. At the appropriate distances I will lead into either a cHK, dfHK, or sHK After a sHK, I usualy go down for either sweep. I'll mix DP's up w/ that too if I think a counter is comin. If I feel it will b unexpected and not punished, i will fake a jab/short then overhead LK Sometimes u wanna dance around sweep range and be defensive, then throw out a sweep now and then.. or if they're more timid from your play, b more aggressive. Kyo has a good crouch jab too, so sometimes I will do that at a sweep range to stuff any possible longer ranged attacks jD+HP is good to throw in.. not sure if EX Kyo has it. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 3rd, 2001 04:33 PM: not sure if EX Kyo has the jd.hp either. He doesn't have his RED Kick though. Instead the same motion gets you a weird 3-hit rising kick (kinda like a cross btw Chun's and Ryu's Hurricane Kick). I can't remember the name of it, but since Kyo's RED Kick isn't as effective as it was in KoF you'd be better off with EX Kyo and using the rising kick. Then you can swap between his DP and the rising kick. Say for example you tag a guy out of the air with DPs non stop. Then just to scare the crap out of him, AS SOON AS HE JUMPS, you could prolly do a rising kick instead and tag him out before he gets anywhere close to your standing/DP position. Anyone good with Nak? I've tried her a few times but she's uber odd to use IMO. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 04:42 PM: Nak is the shit, man! Hero, you said you were addicted to crossups... Nak should be ur fav char! By now everyone knows her critical combo, cLK cLK sB+HP QCD+P mainly you're playing a lightning quick confusion game and w/ her, hitting the crossup is EASY, and then you get that combo.. too good. Plus she has her bird games which I elaborated on a little in another thread.. but since this is the tactics and techniques thread, I will post em here too if u want. Since u said u were goin char by char, I didnt know if Nak was next on the list of if u were just commenting on her __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 3rd, 2001 05:08 PM: Just commenting. I have no definate strats with her, so if you post yours I'd appreciate. Next in my list would have to be... *drumroll* IORI!! Yep, I like to use Iori every now and then. I'm not too solid with him but I have a few good tricks. The same projectile -> special throw I mentioned with Kyo works for him, plus he seems to have some 'umph' in his c.hk. Plus he has a nice combo that goes: j.hp, c.lp, c.lp, c.hp, Maiden super. Even at lvl 1, the maiden super does nice damage, just it's a b!tch to connect on its own. Thus the combo, though I'm not sure if doing 2 c.lp's will always connect. If not, go for one. His c.hp also serves as a good anti air, though I think his DP+lp would better off. If you use SNK Groove, there's also his trap trick. I think it's to go for his lightning super (qcb->hcf+p) over and over and when the oppenet gets caught, got to maiden super. You have to be in the red though for it, so I think it's rather risky, more like a last-ditch effort. In Capcom groove he's useful though. As long as you build a full meter, you could always start some pressuring with s.lp, c.lk, and c.lp. Always toss these out, and if they block, throw three, whiff one, walk up and throw. Once you have this throw mindset on 'em, go for the 3 hits again, whiff one after BUT two-in-one into his lighting super instead of a throw. If it works, and you are in Capcom groove, you will have a full lvl 2 to use for a maiden super right after the lightning connects. Yum. Only problem I have with Iori is he's too slow. Plus he doesn't have any relable 'transportation' specials, so you wind up relying on dashing, superjumps, and the occasional roll (even tho it's too slow for my tastes). If you're really good, you can work the problem to your advantage. Always walk up for attacks, keep control of the space directly in front of you, and when the other guy thinks you're playing 'slow and steady' go for a surprise dash to throw, superjump to crossup, etc. Posted by TRuNK$ on April 3rd, 2001 05:32 PM: jus thought i'd share some of my wisdom this tactic works best for me with guile, but it'lll work with ne charge character. U need to use the roll to ur advantage. Try charging back, roll the right as u finish the roll prees forward and fire a sonic boom. This'll work best if u roll through an opponent, then u don't even need to press forward, u can jus fire the sinc boom out of ur roll. Then when u think u can get um use a special out of a roll through. Guile's back, forward, back, forward+punch special works great cuz of it's awsome recovery time. Maybe i'll share some more tactics a little later, class is almost over so i gotta go. :P __________________ I PIMP HOES!!!!! Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 05:40 PM: Yeah, you need to be really careful w/ ur rolls tho. But as a surprise tactic, that works well. Usualy, tho, if I think I can hit after a roll w/ Guile, I will fire some jabs out of the roll and combo a boom. Depends on the situation. rolling into flash kick is also effective sometimes. Mainly tho w/ Guile u dont wanna roll TOO much. Hero, I'll write all about Iori a little later when i have time to make it good __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 07:00 PM: OK, Iori... 1st off I only play Iori in SNK mode so I'll use him often as my 2nd in EX Mai, Iori. They both have "cheap" SNK-mode tricks, so it's an annoyance team. I think the key to good play w/ Iori is "he's a little slow." He has the moves and attacks to be great, but some of his critical movements(his sweep, his jump, his walk) are much slower than, say, Ryu That just means they take a little more forethought because you have more time acountable as it relates to safety. In other words, you dont wanna abuse the cHK LOL For this maneuvering patience, Iori is given several rewards. 1st, his main non-super combo. jB+LK, cLP, cHP xx QCB+P x 3 That's 2 light attacks, a hard attack, and 3 special moves. If you can adjust from his slow maneuvering to quick comboing and vice versa, this becomes something that is not too difficult to land. And if it wasnt already easy, they give you B+LK.. an automatic crossup! This B+LK is, no lie, prob the reason I use Iori LOL(that and the lvl 3 maiden masher) 2nd, he has his "SNK Trick" Hero already mentioned this. You do have to be in the red, but my feeling is this: Im not going for the "trick win," Im going for an outpoking, outcomboing win. I dont LET him get me in the red for a cute finish, I just take that as a "save" if the competition is good. When in the red, you charge up, do a lvl 3 column super. Walk forward about a step or 2(u need to advance), then begin to charge the super again. Repeat until chip-kill or until it hits. When it hits and you re-charge, lvl 3 Maiden Masher Not to mention, he has a projectile, a DP, an overhead, a command throw, a dash throw, and one of the best dashes in the game. That's right, his dash.. so u can aprtially compensate for his lack of speed when u can dash. Also, his jumps cover good distances, especially his super jump. They have relatively low arcs so crossing up uccurs easier. And u get one cross up, not only can you bust that big combo, but if it's blocked, stop at diff points in the combo(gotta mix it up.. after the 1st QCB+P is a good start) and try for a throw. his sweep is slow, but if you can see ahead enough to know the attempt is safe and pressuring, it has GREAT range and can hit people from distances they dont expect. His standing HK is a good space controller. All his pokes serve a purpose. I mix low shots and overheads when Im able to get in. Another cool trick is to cLK at sweep distance to sort of fake-sweep. Sometimes they will retaliate the "sweep," and meet w/ ur retaliation(combo, DP, whatever) I've always felt Iori was top tier, even if not for his play, just because of his SNK trick. Not the cleanest way to win, but if its avoidable, it's not cheap. His slowness prob loses to Nak, but I think if Iori can play a good defensive game and force her to open up, he can stand w/ anyone. Also, just to mix it up... fireball - DP tactics LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 3rd, 2001 10:54 PM: I just remembered the qcb+p move. There's insane fake outs you can do with him. Like go for the first two, and if the opponent is duck blocking, go ahead for the third. It works as an overhead! If your opponent starts to catch on to this and blocks high on the third, do two, and then break out into c.lk, c.hp, qcb+p X 3. See? You fake em AND still get the move on 'em. It annoys the heck out of some people ^__^ Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 3rd, 2001 11:01 PM: Good call.. I think I mentioned the fake outs on the QCBx3, but u gave some good ways to do it Of course I like to throw from it as well.. but IM sure u figured that. Also if they block it high you can sweep(just to mix things up) then go for a crossup. repeat till combo hits Do u ever use his command throw? the one where he flips behind them? I never do.. but if it leads to a free combo, I should start lol Dash into DP is a good tactic w/ Iori if u anticipate it will work. Mixed up w/ dash into throw and dash into block, that can become very confusing __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Dem-Dem on April 3rd, 2001 11:46 PM: I use Ex-kyo. I on a knock down I jump twice to throw off my opponent. when they think i'm going to jump again I do a ducking short. standing jab buffer into his backwards dragonpunch motion with roundhouse (forgot the name of the move). Posted by Hero on April 4th, 2001 01:44 AM: Good idea, and once they've caught onto your two-jump pattern, jump only once and go for the combo! =D Posted by Laicram on April 4th, 2001 09:26 PM: Hello, If your character has a quick roll, it's good to roll when you sense a sweep coming then attack from behind. Like when someone messes up their link from c. lk to c. hk. Rather than wait or sweep yourself, roll past their late sweep and counter attack =) Not exactly an "advanced tactic", but it's a frame of mind to consider switching to while playing. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 4th, 2001 11:07 PM: Rooling behind and/or thru an attack is always a smart idea(again, if done sparingly). You always have to be very careful when u roll tho.. but that's common knowlege. Char's like King and Yamazaki have great rolls(short and fast) so they can do stuff like that __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 5th, 2001 02:07 AM: Just be sure to remember that there's a small time at the beginning and end of a roll where you can get hit. Also you can get thrown out of a roll at anytime. __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 5th, 2001 07:53 PM: Certain characters have fairly abuseable moves that can be twice in a row with fairly little fear of retribution (EX Terry's Power dunk, Ken's jab shoryuken, Cammy's C. forward xx short cannon drill or short cannon drill followed by a cannon spike). That in and of itself is a strategy, great for tagging people who aren't aware of their properties, but the best part is when they think they have the patter down. Since I use EX terry the most, I guess I'll use him as an example. Let us say that my opponent has figured out the good old double power dunk strat... he (or she) knows better then to try to poke me out of it, which allows me to do a couple of things. They'll block, so I can chuck them, or alternatively, start up a poke pattern. Or even better, starting up a poke pattern, wiffing a jab, then chucking them . Not only is it effective, I've found it to be extremely annoying to the said opponent, especially if you get a couple of psychic DP's/chucks in (assuming they wisen up to the throwing thing). Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 5th, 2001 08:01 PM: LOL!!!! That is awesome.. I am laughing because I do that myself and it REALLY does annoy people. I never thought of doin it w/ Cammy's dfHK, Cannon Drill.. thats awesome if that works twice! I do like that w/ Terry and Ken(I do it more w/ Ryu.. maybe its not as safe, but I do OK) You can also crackshoot cLK twice too. Even if not 100% recovery free, its pretty quick(Man Terry is a beast) Good work on that tactic tho, thats one of the most effective in the game. Oh yeah.. Chun Li's flip kick! (because of it and her jLK I think she's my best char. in the game) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 5th, 2001 08:11 PM: I actually wasn't aware of it either, James enlightened me . I personally feel that you need a good anti air type attack to do this though, which, fortunately enough, most people seem to have. It's a bit harder with Cammy, since you have to predict (with EX Terry, if they jump back, crack shoot/Power Geyser, or up, I just wait a sec then power dunk. Shotos can do the whizzing hurricane kick or shoryuken) that they're going to jump, or they might come down to quickly (especially those with irregular jumps). Getting out of these patterns, though is something equally as important . I find it pretty easy with Terry, either EX or Regular. Just roll right after you block, it's HARD to grab Terry out of his roll since its so damned fast, then powerdunk/rising tackle. At the very worst, you'll trade hits, but if they're trying for a pattern, rising tackle/powerdunk will ALWAYS win . Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 5th, 2001 08:24 PM: One tactical point I wanted to discuss is the beginning of a round("FIGHT!") How do you guys usually handle this? I just discovered a lot of universal opens that are SAFE so I can alternate w/ those. Some of them include the walk back, walk back and jab, jump up(fairly safe, but hittable), jump back, dash back, superjump back, walk forward and block, Chen says Yuri's QCF+LK move is safe(I have found this to be accurate, but it is hittable if they jump forward.. they should rarely do this tho), Cammys Drill is fairly safe, Nak's bird hop - bird throw is safe, Jump back fireball/hurricane, and more.. Then I found moves that were quickly and directly offensive, but not as safe. Blanka's ball, Blanka's B, F+K ball, Fireball(anyone w/ one obviously), jump up air fireball(fairly safe actually), Nak's QCBD + P move, Hurricane Kick, Psycho Crusher, Cannon Drill(very safe if LK, but still a direct attack), Kim's jump up QCF+LK, Jumpkick, King's HK Tornado Kick, Yamazaki's slashes, Dhalsim's HK and HP, Dash forward(really risky), Walk forward poke/sweep, Superjump forward, and on and on.. I try to mix this up as much as my regular game.. I mainly play the unsafe ones(but switch em up) and the semi safe ones... for fun of course they're unexpected and therefore sometimes safe. But really what im waiting for is for them to punish it. I reason that when they do finally "catch on," I will take a little damage, but that I can play hard and make it up.. the reward for doing so is a kick ass start later on. (Its a gamble, yeah, but a fun one) Then I just sorta stand around.. because if I have fireballed every time I play, he's gonna jump kick(the main way to refute the fireball open). So I stand around and get the "psychic" DP. Or if I do a Ball w/ Blanka every time, and he sudenly starts throwin out a HK to stop it. I will just start a round by walking backwards and when he whiffs his HK, I've already hit F+P Now these mind games are all fun.. but if you're, like going to play a tourney, I guess I'd have to recommend just safe starts like walking back, jumping back, standing around ready to move, etc.. But I love playing those games on the starts. My fave is to start w/ Blanka's B, F+K U'd b shocked how many people see Blanka hop back and dont see the ball comin'. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 5th, 2001 08:29 PM: LOL Bad ass. Like I said, I do the repeated move thing sometimes.. but usualy as something I do RARELY for a surprise w/ a few chars. But I should try abusing the abusable one's more I do the double powerdunk thing, but the the others (like Kens LP DP) I knew about but enver really utilized. Thanx! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by mikedandrea on April 5th, 2001 09:05 PM: Damn TGKY, good thread! I'm gonna read through the pages some more when I get more time. Pretty good stuff so far though. LOL, MIKE D. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 5th, 2001 11:05 PM: Thanx, man. I find this stuff fascinating as well.. which is why I'm so apt to write lots about it LOL Yeah, read thru it all cuz I'd love to hearur input.. hero, who didja wanna do next? People have been discussing Chun Li in some other threads and she's prob my best char.. but I will duscuss anyone, really. After what Hoe Muffin said about Cammy.. that gave her a push as far as Im concerned(tho I always liked Cammy) Whoever tho __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 6th, 2001 11:13 PM: Just a cool tactic for a shoto.. Do a short hurricane kick then DP right out of it.. works well as a "Psychic" DP because many people will think to retaliate after a missed Hurricane. Of course some people may not, but you should feel them out or maybe "program" them to do so by maybe purposely whiffing a short HK then blocking. They will mentally associate your block w/ the HK so when they see it again, they think they can safely poke. But the DP nails them. Next time they then might b thinkin "DP" when u HK.. walk in for the throw or poke Its all mind games PS. If you do this w/ Ken, you can mix this w/ the double-special tactic Hoe Muffin mentioned above.. whatver u think the opponent WONT EXPECT! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Klyde on April 7th, 2001 01:01 AM: any one have strats against nako? god she is annoying.. with incredible speed .. good jump plus better attack out of the jump.. fast little slide move along the ground.. from almost full screen.. *unpunishable* well at least I have found it to be unpunishable so far.. and very reliable standing jabs which will hit even ducking opponents.. one thing that she could do is basically get close do a couple of crouching shorts into standing jabs.. and walk forward do another jab.. etc.. and you barely have any time for any reversal attempts.. worse of all if she doesn't go for the jab and you just did a dp or power dunk she can punish you.. so its rather safe.. then ofcourse there is also the option of walking and just throw... since she cover that distance so quickly.. I have found that she has basically nothing on footsies from basically low hk range of terry but she could cross you up from there.. or roll in.. etc.. and then back away and get on her damned bird to kill more time.. thank god she doesn't have a too damaging combo out side of the corner.. and you can't out wait her.. since at the end of the round she could always regenerate her health and when time goes out she still is still recovering.. grr... Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 7th, 2001 02:14 AM: This all all true.. of course rather than think of it as her "damned bird," I think of it as her "kick ass bird." LOL 2 things tho regarding what u said... 1. As good of a char as Nak is, her roll kinda sucks. I'll still use it time to time when I'm distanced so that I will end up RIGHT behind em.. they also have to b in a somewhat timid mindset or they will combo u out of the roll 2. Her life gain super also isnt really recommended. It's easy to swat someone out of, which makes the idea of life gain a little pointless. My bro uses it and maintains he can get a fiar chunk back when timed well.. but I feel(JChen agrees.. he is king heh) that that super is worthless. Dont even super too much w/ her except surprise lvl 1 birds. Then she can build meter like mad for, say, Ryu who would really like the extra meter. I love that bird LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Klyde on April 7th, 2001 06:02 AM: umm well lets say that the clock is winding down to .5 secs.. both you and your opponent are around mid screen you could hop on your bird.. fly back land and regenerate right before the time goes out.. and you will regain a huge chunk.. *not sure of how much it does actually* and even when the time is out you are still regenerating until they announce who won that round.. so what I am saying is that you can't out wait her in late rounds.. so in situations like that.. yes it is very good.. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 7th, 2001 08:24 AM: I suppose, but if u were playing me and time was that low, a. I would rush you so it would b hard to get a move off like that in a scramble. b. Even if i was too far away somehow, u would get hit w/ a fireball by the time u got it off I just dont think the move is really practical, but I guess it has it's proponents __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Klyde on April 7th, 2001 04:52 PM: so I guess I know all the stuff that I should watch for... maybe I am just playing too predictable against this nak that is why I am loosing.. by the way ... is there any way to punish her little ground slide move?? Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 7th, 2001 05:44 PM: Uh, yes and no. You can punish the ground slide, but if the Nak player is any good, you won't be seeing that too much outside of combos. I personally find that I do best with the Terry's against Nak, but again, that's because I think I'm the best with them. Generally, after a blocked string, (c. lk, c. lk, c. lk, s. fp), I immediately powerdunk, based on the following assumptions: 1. The Nak player is not so good, and finishes the chain (ground slide), in which case, power dunk wins after the slide, since you'll be blocking after the combo. If the Nak player screws it up, then you get a power dunk. 2. The Nak player jumps on the bird, in which case power dunk sends her back to the ground before she can do any damage, at worst, you'll trade, which is good for you (Terry has better stamina). 3. The Nak player blocks, which is also good, start up the footsie game of death. Of course, this is all fairly general stuff, and you'll have to change it from situation to situation. The one thing you shouldn't do is change how Terry is played... going turtle against Nak moves away from his strong points, and I got my butt kicked all around until I realised that. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 7th, 2001 06:08 PM: Yeah, if someone straight out slides at you, as soon as you get out of block stun, you have a split sec to attack, and that is enough. But as Hoe Muffin said, this oppurtunity shouldnt arise much against good competition I like EX terry a lot and agree his ground game can stop Nak if done right. But i never really look at specific matchups.. anyone can beat anyone. LOL Hoe Muffin, I can't imagine EX terry turtling __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 7th, 2001 06:11 PM: It's hard . I actually found this problem more prevalent with Regular Terry, since any charge character is automatically conducive to turtling, especially with a move as good as the rising tackle. Posted by Klyde on April 7th, 2001 06:17 PM: the guy who uses nako won't do the slide from close range.. only does it to finish combos that have connected.. if not he does the low shorts into standing jab.. walks forward a bit and jabs... etc.. throws when you get stuffed enough times from the jab... get the image here?? hard to get out of the pressure part .. guess I should stick to low shorts to stop her coming in instead of low fk so she doesn't get the cross up or roll too often... one question.. blocked power dunk.. do they get the time for a free throw before you can pull off another power dunk? Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 7th, 2001 06:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by Klyde the guy who uses nako won't do the slide from close range.. only does it to finish combos that have connected.. if not he does the low shorts into standing jab.. walks forward a bit and jabs... etc.. throws when you get stuffed enough times from the jab... get the image here?? hard to get out of the pressure part .. guess I should stick to low shorts to stop her coming in instead of low fk so she doesn't get the cross up or roll too often... one question.. blocked power dunk.. do they get the time for a free throw before you can pull off another power dunk? Keep in mind, a short power dunk is probably one of the safest moves Terry can pull. If she jabs you, your power dunk will beat her out of it (i.e. wait till the c. short x3 s. jab combo is done, then power dunk). Thankfully, your power dunk will either trade/beat out her standing/crouching fierce, and even if it trades, you come out ahead (power dunk will knock her down). Remember, once the combo is blocked, Nakoruru is in Terry's footsie game zone, i.e. crouching shorts, roll power dunks, and sweeps and the like. Only command throws can chuck you out of the power dunk IF you time it correctly. If you wait too long, then you'll be chucked. So be careful against Zangeif! Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 7th, 2001 06:40 PM: Good question about the throw between power dunks... I dont think there's time, but I could b wrong If Nak repeatedly walks to you w/ jabs, I'd aternate between blocking, jumping back, and rolling. Also counter poking can be good depending on your char., but of coutse you have to time that very well, especially against Nak(not too realitic, honestly) Assuming we're still talkin about Terry, his roll is pretty good so if it's unexpected you can roll thru the attack.. but Nak is quick so dont really expect the roll to present too much of an attack oppurtunity, I would roll, jump bacxk, reset the momentum, then go to Terry's ground game I can see reg. Terry turtle, but I always use EX. I like the rising tacle a little more than the PD, but the PD serves a diff purpose and I hate to charge w/ Terry __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 7th, 2001 10:15 PM: I think while EX Terry is good offensively, I think regular Terry has more turtling capability. Whenever I start off a match, I automatically dash back twice and assume crouching position - 1) If they remain, I throw a Power Wave 2) If they attack, I throw out a crouching fierce kick 3) If the jump, I throw out a Crack Shoot - the distance from dash back twice allows me to connect the Crack Shoot effectively. The Power Wave is like, really annoying to most characters with the exception of E.Honda and Blanka. Rugal and Yamazaki can reflect it, but I usually attack the hell out of them anyway - they can't seem the handle the pressure since they both seem to be distance fighters, Yamazaki handles it a little eaiser naturally. Power Wave is my lure. I throw a couple out and people come to me. It works the best against Nakoruru players. They can't throw Mamahaha at the same speed I can Power Wave, they can't slide under to counter, and at my distance, they don't have enought time to hop on Mamahaha and Dive Slash. The crouching fierce kick being blocked is great. Why? People like to do things afterward, especially when I plan on them blocking it. Like Yamazaki players will crouching fierce kick back - AB roll, Rising Tackle. Nakoruru players will try to Dive Slash - 1) Rising Tackle, 2)Trade hits with a Power Geyser (ouch, doesn't that hurt). Things like that. I also like doing a jab Burn Knuckle just for the hell of it. That way, when I keep doing it, when I throw out a Power Wave, I follow it with a fierce Burn Knuckle Double rolling with Terry is great - I got the idea of double rolling from Yushiro who was mastering it to help Yamazaki avoid EX Mai's Fan super a long time ago. Double rolling behind a character and Rising Tackle gets to annoy people. Changing it up to a throw annoys them even worse when they learn to block it I love my regular Terry... he has so many ways to play with people... ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 7th, 2001 10:44 PM: LOL Awesome.. very good stuff Thats kinda why I like EX Terry.. so many ways you can mess w/ people. But I guess I'm more offensive minded(not to say that's better, it's just me) So even tho those are very effective techniques, I prefer Power Dunk games. I do like to start by dashing back tho(Mummy, did u see my earlier post about match starting??) and then I'll throw out a jab to look like Im attacking while surveying the situation. I usualy pick ym attacks based on the distance I am. Very good call about the blocked cHK.. tho I feel that I have a major advantage once I get a landed cHK. Then I will double dash(double rolling is awesome, by the way!) or single dash, and play one of the fakes I mentioned early in this thread. Even tho I dont like to turtle, I should try normal Terry. Maybe play the game of turtle till they approach, then rush em till they run away What are some other cool Terry tactics you use? I love his meaty games. Fake w/ the cLK's and come in strong w/ sHP's.. very fun EX Terry's ground game is just so quick its easy to get opponents flustered __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 8th, 2001 02:27 AM: I dislike playing regular Terry as a defensive character, though it is possible to play him as such (not usually a good idea, but possible), primarily because he lacks the mobility of Ex-Terry. First of all, Power Dunk is a good way to punish fireballers and get around quickly. More importantly, Ex-Terry can be dashing back and forth, poking with standing attacks, crack shoots, and the like. Against Regular Terry, the second they (Terry) jump, walk forward, or dash, any character can quickly reset the match by dashing back/jumping away. Which means that playing regular Terry involves playing like a total nutcase . I play differently then Mummy B plays, eschewing the power wave pressure in favor of being really in your face, more then EX Terry, if you can imagine. The important thing to remember is that you want to be crouched about 1/2 the time, and you want to be rolling for most of the rest of it. Jumping is reserved only for crossups and the like. Instead of going for anticipating blocked crouching roundhouses, I start most of my chains with 3x crouching shorts. The roundhouse can follow right after, if they do ANYTHING, they'll get sweeped. If the roundhouse is blocked, then we go into regular Terry's old roll around and rising tackle/throw. I'll try to elaborate later if you want, I really haven't had time to gather my thoughts coherently. Sorry! Posted by Mummy-B on April 8th, 2001 02:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin I dislike playing regular Terry as a defensive character, though it is possible to play him as such (not usually a good idea, but possible), primarily because he lacks the mobility of Ex-Terry. First of all, Power Dunk is a good way to punish fireballers and get around quickly. More importantly, Ex-Terry can be dashing back and forth, poking with standing attacks, crack shoots, and the like. Against Regular Terry, the second they (Terry) jump, walk forward, or dash, any character can quickly reset the match by dashing back/jumping away. Which means that playing regular Terry involves playing like a total nutcase . I play differently then Mummy B plays, eschewing the power wave pressure in favor of being really in your face, more then EX Terry, if you can imagine. The important thing to remember is that you want to be crouched about 1/2 the time, and you want to be rolling for most of the rest of it. Jumping is reserved only for crossups and the like. Instead of going for anticipating blocked crouching roundhouses, I start most of my chains with 3x crouching shorts. The roundhouse can follow right after, if they do ANYTHING, they'll get sweeped. If the roundhouse is blocked, then we go into regular Terry's old roll around and rising tackle/throw. I'll try to elaborate later if you want, I really haven't had time to gather my thoughts coherently. Sorry! Yes actually, this particular strategy I created to handle Nakoruru specifically - for other players I modify it and I am more aggressive. You'll notice when I play people like Ryu I am mid-level - half defense, half offense. People like Yamazaki, I am offense crazy all over the place and I play like EX Terry would almost (Rising Tackle makes Sadomazo ineffective ^_^). __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 8th, 2001 03:52 AM: I just go for an early initiative. Then if I get the momentum, I rush until I: a. win b. lose the momentum Then if i lose the momentum I play a careful defense. Or if theyre not attacking, an agressive poke game until I find an opening. Basically my feeling about defense is this: BLOCK If all you do is block, you will lose. But I say to be good, you have to be able to block anything at any time. When I jump, even w/ non-charge chars., I hold back so that when I land I can block IF I have to. I always hold db for crouching attacks, etc. Then when you're blocking, you have to be very attentative to what theyre doing. The its all about waiting for an opening. A good player has the pattern recognition to see the slightest holes in any attack. Hardly any attack is fool proof and constant. Thats why i always used to laugh when people talked about "cheap," because every tactic has SOME answer, even if it's straight prevention. But its all about seeing the slight openings... I see openings as.. -knockdowns.. if I sweep you, its not good for you -jumps.. I try to always be ready w/ antiair. Also, rolls are great ways to counter jumps. I Mix it up -stalls.. if they stop at all in their offense, I will throw out a jab and see what happens.. if you dont flail, I will the move into another poke based on my distance form you. Sometimes its not a jab, but a sweep.. depends on the hole and character position. But if they do a poke sequence then try to walk in for the tick, that walk in is an opening! cLK! or whatever. But any time their attack stops, try and interrupt it or maybe jump away. Better to retreat than eat another combo. -craziness.. If they are just attacking w/ no regard for finnesse or thought.. I see that as an opening. Rolling good for escaping corners or frantic attacks, depending on the character So really, I try to try and rush, but if it gets hard, i play a strong D until I get my opening. Thats prob why I like Chun Li so much.. she has a top notch offense, but can also take advantage of a lot fo holes. Kim, Nak, Ryu, Guile, Yama, EX Vice, Blanka, and Terry are like that as well. Well most chars are, but they excel at it __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 8th, 2001 11:37 PM: Just realized another good thing to do when being pressured is bust out a high priority super. "Caution to the wind" attackers wont be happy w/ Balrog's, Zangief's, etc.. lvl 3 supers __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hero on April 9th, 2001 01:12 AM: Yeah, but some level 3's do no good against pressure. Sometimes a wakeup DP is all you need =D __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by NV on April 9th, 2001 01:24 AM: I love wake up DP's LOL __________________ just when I think you couldn't get any dumber,you go ahead and do this...and totally redeem yourself! Posted by Hero on April 9th, 2001 03:54 AM: funny thing is though, I never really used wakeup DPs until recently. Or any wakeup anti air would do, such as Kim's flash kick, Iori/Kyo's uppercut, Guile's Flash Kick, etc. Hey Guile, could you elaborate on the mind games Nak plays? I was using her a few days ago and I'm starting to get interested. =) __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by NV on April 9th, 2001 08:16 AM: Yeah, Nak is a really fun character to use. Well, like a lot of characters but a little more so, Nak has a few theaters of mind games. 1st of, she has very quick attacks and movements. She may not have a long ranged poke(tho her sHK is pretty good none the less to mix things up) but her jump kick is so fast and relatively short, that u almost have to consider her crossup a "good ranged poke w/ lag" Because her jabbing and suck is so quick, her tick/pressure game is extreme. Basically say to urself, "w/ everything I have at my disposal, all i really have to land is one lousy cLK" because then you can go into her combo of doom Another advantage she has is that almost all of her knock downs are good setups distancewise for her crossup, which is obviously the easiest way to land that cLK(and deep I might add) In fact, once u hit that big combo.. ur super jump distance away from a crossup! OK, so suppose I sweep someone. i havea few options.. I can walk/dash/roll in for the meaty attack.. maybe fake it, maybe not. Mixing up her crouching and standing LP's and LKs or I can crossup. That's always my 1st inclanation.. but if u do it every time, its gonna become predictable. So I crossup w/ LK and go right into my cLK.. if they dont block.. combo into sj crossup again. If they block I have some options.. I can: -cLK walk up, throw -cLK cLK crossup again. Remember, her jump is like a poke w/ lag.. so if u think this will b safe, go for it! Very unexpected and confusing.. maybe this time they wont think to block -cLK cLP cLK sHK or some kind of "blocked" string then go into the pressure -slow poke. The technique I mentioned on the 1st page of the thread where u throw out some cLP's a little slower than usual rapid fire so they may realiate right into it.. also gets ua feel for if they wanna continue blocking or what. In fact a great way to do this is to jab, walk forward SLIGHTLY, jab, repeat.. however u cant do this too much. Im actually not too good at the walk jab walk jab.. but sometimes I do it once or twice and then go low or something So on knockdown, u hav a lot of options.. PLUS, there are her bird games! Ive never actually seen SGHL quality bird games, im sure.. but I can tell u a thing or 2 about mixing up w/ it.. There are a few things u can do when ur on the bird: -fly around -attack w/ any button(4 options there) -QCF+LP -QCF+HP -QCB+LP -QCB+HP -jump off the bird Considering the fact that all of thse options are completely safe except the QCB+P's.. and theyre even relatively safe(just dont b dumb w/ it!), thats a lot fo good options Also, those moves come VERY fast.. QCB+LK, QCF+P can b faster than any air fireball Akuma or Ryo can throw! And it keeps u w/in safe distance. I like to use that move to do chip and give me time to maneuver for an attack(time as in a split second, but thats enough) So u're on that bird and u can do a lot fo stuff.. the mind games come when out of the mixups comes an attack.. something so simple as(while on bird) LP LP QCB+LP might seem very unexpected. Or what about doing the bird toss, then next time quickly jump off the bird and go QCBD+P.. or maybe jump off the bird, then back on w/ an attack! As long as u stay unpredictable and do the opposite of what u "program" ur opponent to think is coming, you're golden. I mean if u wanna just go nuts, try crossing up, then hopping on the bird, kicking, then throwing it at them As long as u mentally calculate that u have time to mount an attack, do it as long as it leaves u safe. But ultimately, u're just trying to land that combo. So if u fluuter w/ the bird all day, they may not see the superjump crossup attempt coming Stuff like that. I am gonna head out.. there are tons of specific tactics w/ Nak and I'd like to analyse em if u want... but see if this helps the creative juices flow.. Hero, u may end up comin up w/ some shit I'd never even think of LOL thats just how I approach the game. Bird games/Crossup games Man I'd love to see Ricky Ortiz' Nak! __________________ just when I think you couldn't get any dumber,you go ahead and do this...and totally redeem yourself! Posted by NV on April 9th, 2001 08:17 AM: Whoops, this is ThisGuileKillYa My bro changed to his name on me LOL __________________ just when I think you couldn't get any dumber,you go ahead and do this...and totally redeem yourself! Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 03:58 PM: I personally find that my team of honda and guile to be able to stop just about anything. Posted by Wake on April 9th, 2001 04:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite I personally find that my team of honda and guile to be able to stop just about anything. I guess Nak and Honda will make a good poke and turtle combination........ Try and u'll see the difference, onli real season players can see thru your moves, even if they do, its gonna be a very careful game when it comes to playing with nak and honda.... Wake __________________ *Trust me, its not easy to be of different breed* Posted by Mummy-B on April 9th, 2001 04:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Wake I guess Nak and Honda will make a good poke and turtle combination........ Try and u'll see the difference, onli real season players can see thru your moves, even if they do, its gonna be a very careful game when it comes to playing with nak and honda.... Wake Nua ha ha ha after the information from PSX2000 My EX Yamazaki punishes E. Honda!... too bad he's ratio 3. Terry can't join him. kusotare. -_- so either scrap him or find a ratio 1 that can deal with Nak like my Terry does. kuso. problems, problems. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 05:10 PM: I agree with mumm-B. GOod yamazaki players can punish honda easily. IT forces honda to play a ground game. I'm not gonna claim im unbeatable but i know what works. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 05:43 PM: 1st off, I do not at all consider Honda(I use EX) a turtle.. I play him agressively. As for Honda losing to Yamazaki.. I dunno. But PSX is an expert so I'll take ur guys' words for it, but I think Honda can beat just about anyone when played well. Honda and Guile unstoppable? I belive it LOL I think the best r2s, in this order(remember, just opinion): 1. Nakoruru 2. Guile 3. Chun Li/EX Honda (tie) 4. Ryu/Ken/EX Terry (tie) 5. EX Kim/SNK EX Mai (tie) 6. SNK Iori 7. EX Balrog 8. Ryo 9. Kyo(EX Kyo is just about as good tho) 10. Zangief 11. Raiden (note, I think Raiden and Zang can b played very well.. just not as well as the others is all) I only put up the ex/normal version I use.. so dont get mad regular Terry and EX Guile arent on there Since its opinion based, im sure a lot of u guys will argue w/ this.. but thats cool, I wanna analyse it PS. I think Chun Li might be higher up than that __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:00 PM: I still fail to see WHY ex honda? sure he gets to retain the super but i would MUCH rather have the 360's 720's. It adds to my traps. I think people only started using ex honda cuz of the wilson video Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 06:17 PM: I'll admit, that vid was the reason I started using Honda in the 1st place(regularly at least) But I still think EX is better. I like the walking hundred hand even tho I rarely use it. I just dont use 360's and 720's all that much. Id rather trap w/ slapping in the corner. I honesly think both are equal.. same as Kim, Balrog, Kyo, almost Terry(EX is a lil better), almost Guile(reg is a lil better) gem.. can u elaborate on the 360 720 traps u mentioned? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:21 PM: Guilekillya: i'll assume you know basic tactics with honda e.g. they jump you counter with jab headbutt. IMO once you start taking them out of the air they will try to counter your butt drops instead just roll in with 360. Or Roundhouse Butt drop into 720 Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:23 PM: Heres a scenerio Pressure tactics. Sumo splash, c-short, repeat. Mix with jab Headbutt, Butt spash to mix up opponent. Opponent expects you to take to air after short, roll do 360. If opponent in corner you'd be surprise how many times they fall for it. Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:26 PM: Oh just so you guys know my terms are sumo splash/press = d, u, short butt drop = d, u, roundhouse headbutt - b, f 360 = 360 Another trap: Same trap as before but after butt drop do 100 hand slap, jab headbutt, c-short, Repeat any trap tactic. Honda RAPES guile IMO, sumo press stops both his boom and flash Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:28 PM: Sorry for multiple posts but my ISP wont let me do long ones another simple trap once they get tripped roll in and do butt drop. If you times it right your butt will be right on top of them as they are getting up so they have to GUESS which way to block. If they do block it just do crouch short then start trap Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 06:30 PM: If they get hit after the initial butt drop continue with butt drops but be sure to position your self with rolls. Eventually they'll get frustrated and block the wrong way. I won the Toronto Tourney with my Honda tactics. When the wilson video came out everyone here was like wow his honda is like GemInite's Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 07:05 PM: Awesome, man... yeah, I always mix up the LK splash, LK, repeat chains and I also mix up the headbutt in there as well as HK splashes. Enlightening to see Im doin it right Thats cool if u innovated the Honda strats. I'll admit fully I got my Honda ideas from that movie.. but that only showed so much. That vid taught me "buttsplash LK repeat" and "jab headbutt antiair" But I formulated techniques from that.. Thats cool about the 360 tricks.. I never really thought about adding that to the pressure. Perhaps I shall have to try.. I like to keep Honda very fasted paces.. always movin. Thats why i think its funny when people talk about him as a turtle. Im sure he'd make an effective one, but w/ rolls Honda is an executioner Is it just me, or does it feel good to throw someone in the corner w/ Honda? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 08:01 PM: when opponents turtle in a corner they deserve to get thrown. Only people that are a bitch to play is runaway shotos. Just member Butt Drop WILL hit them if you do it same time as their fireball. use Fierce headbutt and stay close to them. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 08:07 PM: Good call.. another thing to note as well is that the LK Splash hits on the way up and down, yet the HK one only hits down but goes farther. I love the LP headbutt for antiair.. when I found that out I was like "well, hell.." Also btw.. I dont even really use the chargable super.. unless, can u roll w/ it? Then I just may! (If he can roll w/ it charged, thats a main EX advantage) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 08:42 PM: yes as far as i know you can roll and maintain the charge. But if you are rolling you have enough time to do the full motion so there is no need to hold forward during the roll. IMO you hsould always be charging back. His level 3 super goes through fireballs at a certain range. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 08:48 PM: I was only thinking it would help for very very fast initiation of the super.. but on the whole I agree.. Im holding DB for 95% of my Honda game LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 09:55 PM: Since I started talkin about rankings.. here's how I'd put the other ratios... Remember, just my opinion r4: 1. Akuma 2. E. Ryu 3. O. Iori r3: 1. Yamazaki(reg. and EX are equally good) 2. SNK EX Sagat 3. EX Bison 4. Rugal 5. EX Geese(I prefer EX, but am actually not sure who's better) 6. Vega(Same as Geese) r1: I think all r1's(when the right mode) are about equal.. seems Sakura is the only one who's not up to snuff.. but I can never link her LP/LK's into her DP (sLK link?).. maybe if I could she'd b up there.. But who's to say EX Beni is BETTER than Blanka? I think both Kings are very good.. I like EX for easier combos, but I think regular is a little better. Ex Vice, EX Yuri, and Blanka are my personal fav's.. everyone is effective, but personally, those are the best 3 __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 9th, 2001 10:45 PM: MUA HA HA HAHAHAAAA OH HAPPY DAY!!! I defeated Nakoruru with MORRIGAN! mua ha ha ha ha~~~~~! ... okay now for the strategic portion, *ahem*... -------------------------------- First of all, I would like to thank Capcom for giving Morrigan's limbs such a wonderful priority. Like, how her offensive crouching fierce punch cancels Nakoruru's slide, crouching jab, standing jab, and crouching fierce punch. I would also like to thank Capcom for making offensive crouching fierce punch combo-able into offensive crouching fierce kick. Second, I would like the thank Capcom for Morrigan's wonderful Cardinal Blade. Like how Morrigan can execute it faster than any of Nakoruru's moves and how I can hit her again in the air with another one right after the first before the poor Japanese Environmentalist touches the ground. Lastly, I would like to thank Capcom for designing her Soul Fist. It is so damn slow that it looks like Morrigan can be hit from afar, she can't. She can just Roll, DP, offensive crouch fierce punch, Roll+Vector Drain, Cardinal Blade, offensive crouch fierce kick, or offensive standing fierce kick to stop anything. Oh yes, her air Soul Fist too. What a wonderful thing it is. Now then. The strategy relies primarily on lots and lots of pressure. Distract her with Soul Fists so that either a)a flaming bird is sent to meet it or b)she slides at you or c)she jumps over it. a) Do it again. She'll either do a, b, or c. In the case of the second a, throw a third, jump over the flaming bird and throw a Soul Fist from the air. If she rolls, oc+fp -> oc+rh. Skip to next paragraph. b) cancel it with oc+fp -> oc+rh. Skip to next paragraph. c) depending on her distance, either offensive standing fierce kick, or DP her. Your discretion. Skip to next paragraph. When she hit the floor, approach her. Do two to three sets of crouching jabs, followed by an oc+fp -> oc+rh. If it connects, repeat. If not, dash and quickly oc+fp -> oc+rh (what a wonderful, easy combo). If it connects, see beginning of paragraph. If it doesn't connect, go to paragraph before. Fitting in Cardinal Blade is totally your discretion, but I advise you not to do unless you are *absolutely* certain you are going to hit her. No, I well stress this again. Unless you are *absolutely* sure you will hit her. Seriously. Make sure you hit her with two Cardinal Blades if at all possible - every hit of a Desperation counts on Nakoruru. That's about it. The rest is mind games. Like how I mix up the crouching jabs, walk up and Vector Drain her every now and then. Also, killing Nakoruru with a mid-air Darkness Illusion will make you feel and look like a god. MUA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA~~~~~~~~~~! ... personal experience. have fun morrigan players. I'll type up how I beat E. Honda later mua ha hahahahahahaha~~~~~! .. today has been a good day. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 10:50 PM: Oh man! I forgot about Morrigan! LOL For r2's I think she's about tied w/ Balrog I'll read Mummy's post on her and elaborate more later See ya in a lil Nice work toasting Nak __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 9th, 2001 11:11 PM: Honda rapes nak all out =). If anymore honda questions ask and i'll answer here. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 9th, 2001 11:15 PM: Ok, I have a minute.. Yeah, Morrigan's awesome.. she has some of the best ground strings BAR NONE.. they chain too!!! A DP is always good.. jugglable supers is always good. I agree that her fireball "delay" can b used as a lure I agree.. she's about meaty attacks up the ace. Only prob w/ Morrigan I have is she doesnt seem to have a good crossup... oh well. Her ground game is the sht fast dash too Also love the chainable dbHP/HK - dfHP/HKs.. cant belive I forgot about her LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Sho 2 on April 10th, 2001 01:18 AM: I was wondering, does anyone have any tactics and/or strats for Raiden. I really need strats vs Snk EX Mai, Nakaruru, Guile, and `Gief. I already know that Raiden has VERY fast grabs but I not really sure how much priority range his 360/720 grabs have. I would also like it if someone could give me strats on how to use his other command throws. I think that he is better then `Gief at building meter with the throw glitch because of his kick throw and he IS better at combos. __________________ With so Many Shotos, I had to make my gi blue - Sho Posted by Bastion on April 10th, 2001 01:19 AM: quote: I'll assume you know basic tactics with honda e.g. they jump you counter with jab headbutt. IMO once you start taking them out of the air they will try to counter your butt drops instead just roll in with 360. Or Roundhouse Butt drop into 720 Heres a scenerio Pressure tactics. Sumo splash, c-short, repeat. Mix with jab Headbutt, Butt spash to mix up opponent. Opponent expects you to take to air after short, roll do 360. If opponent in corner you'd be surprise how many times they fall for it. Oh just so you guys know my terms are sumo splash/press = d, u, short butt drop = d, u, roundhouse headbutt - b, f 360 = 360 Another trap: Same trap as before but after butt drop do 100 hand slap, jab headbutt, c-short, Repeat any trap tactic. Honda RAPES guile IMO, sumo press stops both his boom and flash Sorry for multiple posts but my ISP wont let me do long ones Another simple trap once they get tripped roll in and do butt drop. If you times it right your butt will be right on top of them as they are getting up so they have to GUESS which way to block. If they do block it just do crouch short then start trap If they get hit after the initial butt drop continue with butt drops but be sure to position your self with rolls. Eventually they'll get frustrated and block the wrong way. I won the Toronto Tourney with my Honda tactics. When the wilson video came out everyone here was like wow his honda is like GemInite's My question concerns what's quoted in bold. Does Honda have enough recovery on the sumo splash to excute a c.short fast enough that the opponent can't sneak in a c.short of there own? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 01:29 AM: I dont think u can hit between Splash and cLK.. But u can DP quickly while the splash is going on, especially if it's a HK splash. I could b wrong, but I have never had someone interrupt my spalsh - cLK. Even if u can.. once u're in their head, it's less of an issue. Cuz then u can splash block, and when they cLK, you headbutt. Then start up the splashes again. As for Raiden tactics.. I'll post some later __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 01:30 AM: Bastion: HOndas sumo spash/press hits on the way up and down so hence of they stick out a foot honda will land on it. So they are forced to block you continue trap. Only exception is Anti air attacks e.g. flash kick crouching fierce with shotos. But they can ONLY hit you on your way down. Posted by Bastion on April 10th, 2001 01:32 AM: I playing CvS right now, and I think that Honda is pretty much fast enough to c.short while tey are still in block stun...cool. I've also got the timing down for a Butt-drop to his 720, they barely come out of block stun . __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 01:34 AM: Oh and they really dont have that much time to hit you they have to do it at right time or else they will get hit when honda goes either up or down Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 01:39 AM: Too bad i have ALWAYS had problems doing the 720 motion with honda, main reason being if you hold back then do a 720 you will instead throw outthe head butt super if you are charging back. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 01:42 AM: Yeah, I too have troubles w/ 360s and 720's.. usualy I get a rhythm and 360s are fairly easy, just not 100%.. 720s I suck ass Thats mainly why I saw EX Honda as being better.. but now that my 360ing has improved.. I should try normal __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 01:48 AM: My 360's are perfect but 720's just mess me up and its soooo obvious when i go for them cuz opponent can see me spining the stick like mad so they just hold up or something. Posted by Hero on April 10th, 2001 02:09 AM: This a bit late, but I think Yamazaki is a good character to use. Even though you get forced to pick a r1 teammate, there are good complements to him. EX Vice is my personal choice, because then your characters have this feel that they're walls: unmovable, solid, and hard to breach. Or you could use Yamazaki's polar counterpart - Yuri. Aggressive traps and solid ground games in one team? AW YEAH =P __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by Wake on April 10th, 2001 02:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite My 360's are perfect but 720's just mess me up and its soooo obvious when i go for them cuz opponent can see me spining the stick like mad so they just hold up or something. geminite, Actually i ve this problem ever since i first started playing honda (720 thingy). But can overcome this by means of not storing before execution of this special. Meaning to say most the time we like to hold BD then from BD execute 720? YEs? ok this is the flaw, Cvs will not register that as 720, rather if u hav noticed, when going thru the 720 from DB, ur already going thru the F B F motion and the fact that u ve already stored before that makes its seems like a F B F +P. Trick= dun store before execution. Ok now u might be thinking, "but im so used to storing like when playing zangief", of juz live with it, I DO! ANother trick to exe 720 is to roll ito 720. Trick = the moment u hit LP,LK, ur already turning ur joy. k, this is the fake i always use, keep a distance frm players like ryu(ma favourite victim), usually they will hav the tendancy to high jump @ u with their LK/LP, thus distance them properly, then when u see the high jump, roll and immediately into 720. Or u can buttslam into roll, into 720. Take note try not to store (db) when exe, usually when after buttslam, rolling is already in neutral and i exe ma 720.... Hope u'll find it useful...... Wake __________________ *Trust me, its not easy to be of different breed* Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 02:42 AM: Ummm Ryu's jumpking kicks beats hondas butt slam when he is on his way up. But i get what you're saying. My roll time is near perfect i can always roll right under them if they jump at me and then punish them. Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 02:45 AM: I just cant help but not to hold back. Id much rather retain a charge than attempt a 720 i know i'll miss. Sides i always end up rolling then level 3 head butt cuz opponent always attempts a trip. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 03:38 AM: Hmm... tactics w/ Raiden.. LOL While I ranked him bottom of my r2 scale, as I said b4 I think this game is VERY well balanced so victory w/ Raiden can occur. I dunno if Raiden could ever beat a tournament Guile, but he's fun to play around w/. If I some how manage to get in close and cant throw, I will poke w/ cLP strings and mix w/ ticks. If u are good at rolling into SPDs u can do that, but u gotta b surprising w/ it or u will b punished easily. cHP is a short ranged, but decent space controller / lagged poke Sometimes I will meaty w/ a green mist to be dumb.. but I do that from far away and early so punishment isnt eminent Its good, if u can, to always have a drop kick charged.. it's fast. His B, F+P charge is kinda laggy.. i use it maybe once per match as a surprise tactic. Command throws on wakeup for in-close meaties I think the best way to approach Raiden is to realize that because you're Raiden, people are inclined to take risks aganst you, so dont expect too much momentum until u can find openings. but once u control the pace and/or are able to get in.. his cLP's, cHP, cHK, rolls, 360's, and ticks can be a headache. One cool tactic that may not work against everyone.. when u get in, cLP, walk forward for the tick, but go bac into another cLP.. Raiden s slow, so his tick is more telegraphed. They may animate right into ur next cLP Another good idea is to act as if ur trying to get in but sort of fake it.. like roll then block.. make them think you're comin to them, but swat their retaliations Its very easy to talk about theoretical strats, but in face paced play.. sometimes u just cant get in the oppurtunity to think "I better use cHP to control some space" and thats basically why Raiden is bottom of the food chain. A rushing guile master or Nak master wont give Raiden room to breathe. Hope that helped __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 02:03 PM: Morrigan vs. Honda I can lp Soul Fist, dash foward a)when Honda rolls, oc+fierce punch -> oc+roundhouse b) roll too close, catch you out of it with Vector Drain c)do that Buttpress or jump at me, either the slow ass Soul Fist catches you in the back on the way down, I jump backwards and fierce punch, or I DP you. Honda can't get around the slow ass Soul Fist and roll stopping attempts. Morrigan's oc+fp has too much priority and combos right into a really long rh. Additionally, her Vector Drain seems to be faster than Honda's 360 throw, because when he rolled in and tried, I won every time. Also, Cardinal Blade is the most potent weapon. It is so fast, it beats out the 360 in my face. Also, it intercepts his Charging Headbutt and his Air Buttslam. More importantly, it seem Level 3 Cardinal Blade even beat out the 720 Super, but it might be simply because I knew it was coming and started mine earlier. Also, jumping it and faking a hit with really late air Soul Fist REALLY screws Honda players up. I have also learned to do a Air Soul Fist so low that it "fakes:" She says the name out, but doesn't execute the move. They are blocking. I Vector Drain. That's about 1/8 of your life. As far as mind games go, Honda can't compete with Morrigan, which is the basic way I win. I have over prioritzed limbs, an anti air, a slow ass fireball, throw special, an air fireball, much more speed overall, and a Cardinal Blade super that, on the same level, will intercept any of Honda's supers (lv.1 vs. lv.1, Cardinal Blade wins out. etc etc). And oh yes. I love the way Darkess Illusion intercepts Rolling, Headbutt Charge and Air Buttslam ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 02:10 PM: I love Morrigan which is why this is such a big deal, but I could never really tune her right against really good people. I had to learn and memorize the length and priority on *all* her limbs. Took a while. Now I have to work on beating Guile. I think I already have a pretty solid strat from Nak and Honda, so I'll probably find some way of combining the two strats and tweaking it for Guile's tastes... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 04:15 PM: Mummy B Okay im at skool so i can write a long post here. My honda is at expert level playing, i can easily take out evil ryu players but i guess i'll explain how i would counter your moves. If you do a slow soul fist and dash in i would just wait and the do a jab sumo press right through the sould fist and hit you in the middle of your dash hence making you fall to the ground. Now that you are on ground I would go instantly into the Butt drop trap because your instant reaction would be to block low after being triped low. So as my trap begin i guarantee you will get hit by at least one of the butt drops because it is too hard to tell which way to block. Again you are now on the ground recovering from a trip. Of course you expect me to go into trap again but instead i start 360 traps. By this time I will have a level 3. I will let you do a soul fist and go right through it. Any attempts to jump at me will be countered by a jab headbutt. In the scenerio that you get a cardinal blade on me or trade hits i would immediately do a sumo press wake up and restart trap. Of course Morrigan has many chances to get in her quick combos and a low round house into super. IMO in the end an expert morrigan would lose to an expert honda. Then again I would argue that honda would only get beat by expert kim, vice some shotos. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 06:41 PM: Hmmm... not to sound like Im wussing out of the current convo, but i never really look at CvS based on specific matchups. Its important to know how everyone matches up, but I dont really play any charcaters differently depending on who im against, except of course to be alert for wakeup DPs and whatnot I do think its important to know the matchups.. but I dont think Honda vs Morrigan can really b determined in the thread.. u guys just need to beat eachother's asses I think a good Honda on the offensive will give Morrigan huge trouble. The main flaw w/ Morrigan IMO is that she's w/o a strong crossup, and that might make the difference. Tho w/ the jab headbutt, it might not LOL Both characters have good moves for shifting the momentum(Morri's DP, Honda's splash and headbutt) but I think in the end, I'd have the give the advantage to Honda __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 07:12 PM: I think the only major advantage I have over Honda players with Morrigan is the mind game. I realize Honda is very strong with an expert player, but Morrigan plays the mind games well and can punish for it. I think one of the main things is my offensive combo. clp,clp,clp,oc+fp -> oc+rh. The crouching lp are so fast, unless Honda does a reversal he can't stop it with anything else. Then Morrigan's offensive standing fierce kick *will* trade with Buttslam and Headbutt Charge. Also, the air Soul Fist fake will throw Honda players off like crazy. I can fake a air Soul Fist and do some real damage once it's fallen for. That is a real good mind game with Honda, because if I do a real one, the Headbutt Charge as a counter is useless and he takes a hit, if he blocks for a fake one I can Vector Drain because the "fake" causes the block animation to start up. ... there's more but I have to get to class... I'll write more when I get back! ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 07:25 PM: Thats a good point, but ur forgetting 1 thing.. Honda has mind games of his own. Albiet, they're different. But you're talking about poke strings, which can very easily be blocked. Honda has straight up special move strings movin his fat ass all over tha place. So its an interesting clash. How do u do the air FB fake? Never heard of that one.. Im not saying Morri loses.. the game is so balanced, its amazing.. I just still have to give the advantage to Honda. I'd like to see ur Morri in action tho i love her ground chains LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 08:21 PM: obviously a match cannot be settled in a forum. Mummy-B makes valid points and has good strats, im just posting what I would do. But of Course this just an ASSUPMTION in real theres no telling what will happen Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 10th, 2001 08:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Thats a good point, but ur forgetting 1 thing.. Honda has mind games of his own. Albiet, they're different. But you're talking about poke strings, which can very easily be blocked. Honda has straight up special move strings movin his fat ass all over tha place. So its an interesting clash. How do u do the air FB fake? Never heard of that one.. Im not saying Morri loses.. the game is so balanced, its amazing.. I just still have to give the advantage to Honda. I'd like to see ur Morri in action tho i love her ground chains LOL The "fake" air fireball isn't really a fake, due to Morrigan's strange fireball properties (she sorta hops up), if you do it very late, Morrigan will say "soul fist", but for some reason or the other, the move does not come out. However, the player will still go into block animation, and Morrigan recovers quickly. Unfortunately, I've had no success with Morrigan, partly because I dislike her as a character (I don't she's BAD, I just don't like the way she plays). I don't use Honda much either, but I don't really have problems against either of them (Benimaru, Blanka and the Terry's match up fairly well against them). One person that consistently drives me bonkers is Chun Li, though. I HATE eating spinning Bird kick . Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 08:38 PM: Not to change the subject or nuttin.. But back to Nak. I have been using her alot lately. The only problem is, everyone is playing GGX since our arcade just got it. Blah, I dont like that game that much, but I play it when nobody else is playing anything. Anyway, she can be extreamly anoying if your using her right. I do have one quick question though: In the Dreamcast version of CvS, how do you get Nak to buy? (I only have been using her in the arcade..) I dont think that there is nothing bad about Nak. She has massive speed, cross-up's are great, the bird is a bonus, (Like she needs it. ) You can make an oppoent really confused on what you are going to do next if you are using the bird alot. Say, they block the two c.short in the combo, jump up on the bird, and fly back down with her knife attack and before they can react (they stop blocking) and you are already recovered from what you did. That is a great thing about her. She recovers so quickly that it throws your oppoent off guard, thus giving you a win. (Sometimes) The only thing I dont know, who should I (or anyone else) use with her? What is better, to ratio 1's that you are really good with, or a ratio 2 that you are above adverage with? The thing is, the two ratio 1's, Ex-Beni and Ex-Yuri, I am good with, but they are really weak. Then, I would use Ex-Kim or Ryu as a ratio 2. I'm really good with Ryu (who isnt.. ?) But I am getting better by the day with Ex-Kim.. Any suggestions?! What I am thinking on doing is, testing both teams at the arcade against the best people up here, and see how I do. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by GemInite on April 10th, 2001 08:40 PM: Totally off topic: Has anyone ever tried tiger knee motions for people with air fireball motion moves? This tactic works well with Vice, Akuma, EX-Sakura <- she does a hurricane kick ALL the way up and back. Great for escaping. Sucks for people like ryo, morrigan though Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 10th, 2001 08:42 PM: Uhhh, anybody works well with Nak, really. She is without a doubt the most overpowered character in the game (No, she's not unstoppable, but a good Nak really lays the smack down on a TON of characters). About the only thing to keep in mind is that her supers aren't all that hot, so if you stick her with somebody who uses them (Blanka, Dhalsim, Ryu, Ken, etc.), you'll have a very, very dangerous team. Her only not so hot matchup is with Guile, so they make a good team too (Guile is also another overpowered character ). Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 08:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Totally off topic: Has anyone ever tried tiger knee motions for people with air fireball motion moves? This tactic works well with Vice, Akuma, EX-Sakura <- she does a hurricane kick ALL the way up and back. Great for escaping. Sucks for people like ryo, morrigan though Yes, I have tried, it works well with few. Such as Ex or regular Kim. His kick dive is great, it goes so quick while doing this. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 08:48 PM: Hoe: I just wish that Beni was more powerful. He is also a excelent character in the game, but if he was a tad more powerful than what he is, he would be so much better. I would pick him as a ratio 1 over anyone else. (Using with a ratio 3 or somethin) But, I would have to work alot on the other characters if I do use the two ratio 1's. I will probably use Ryu or Ex-Terry, somethin.. I just dont know about Guile. I dont seem to like using him. I never really liked him that much, but if he is also like Nak (tier wise) then I may give him a shot. I just never liked the hole charging shit when I first started to test him out. It doesnt bother me that much now, but I wouldnt call him a "Super user" Who knows.. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 10th, 2001 08:52 PM: Well, if you're not comfortable with him, then don't use him, it's better that way. I'd recommend Ryu, Lv. 3 Ryu = horrible nightmares for opponent. Same w/ Gief . Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 08:56 PM: I dont use gief either. I never liked his fat ass.. Anyway.. I would probably use Ryu, I have massive Shin Shoryuken combos.. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 09:18 PM: Yeah, I think Ryu is Nak's best compliment. Puts her meter building to use and is, even w/o that, one of the next best characters in the game. Nak Ryu is nasty.. but it's only disadvantage is it's not a very original team.. so u're picking chars everyone has dealt w/ over and over. I rarely use that tiger knee thing. They're somewhat tough to do on a DC pad, but I am adept at QC-ing in the air, so I usually have specific timing for my air moves. I honestly jump and immediately QCF better than Tiger Knee-ing lol To get Nak on DC u have to get every SNK EX Character then get like 8000 more pints. I hated this process LOL There's also something where u fight Nak.. Im not sure if u have to do that 1st, cuz my brother did that before we got her so it was a non-issue. When u do do that, she just stands there. Weird. DId someone say they have trouble w/ Chun Li? LOL I love Chun Li. but incidentally.. I dont really use her spinning bird kick, fearing the retaliation when it's blocked. Am I stuck in the SF2 mindset and its actually usable? She's already my best character, but that's mainly because of her jLK, Flip Kick, Lightning Kick(jump and start mashing LK = nice, easy, minor combo), and various pokes. I dont even really use her fireball except as a surprise move from far away Man, maybe I should write a lil' thing on Chun Li tactics since I seem to be the only one on the boards who tops her on the lists LOL If u guys would wanna see it... __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 10:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Yeah, I think Ryu is Nak's best compliment. Puts her meter building to use and is, even w/o that, one of the next best characters in the game. Nak Ryu is nasty.. but it's only disadvantage is it's not a very original team.. so u're picking chars everyone has dealt w/ over and over. I rarely use that tiger knee thing. They're somewhat tough to do on a DC pad, but I am adept at QC-ing in the air, so I usually have specific timing for my air moves. I honestly jump and immediately QCF better than Tiger Knee-ing lol To get Nak on DC u have to get every SNK EX Character then get like 8000 more pints. I hated this process LOL There's also something where u fight Nak.. Im not sure if u have to do that 1st, cuz my brother did that before we got her so it was a non-issue. When u do do that, she just stands there. Weird. DId someone say they have trouble w/ Chun Li? LOL I love Chun Li. but incidentally.. I dont really use her spinning bird kick, fearing the retaliation when it's blocked. Am I stuck in the SF2 mindset and its actually usable? She's already my best character, but that's mainly because of her jLK, Flip Kick, Lightning Kick(jump and start mashing LK = nice, easy, minor combo), and various pokes. I dont even really use her fireball except as a surprise move from far away Man, maybe I should write a lil' thing on Chun Li tactics since I seem to be the only one on the boards who tops her on the lists LOL If u guys would wanna see it... Actually, her Spinning Bird Kick was improved. It's not the best thing to do still, but I *believe* it goes over fireballs, and, for a fact, *will* punish anyone trying to roll around it. So it's kinda really scary to approach her while she's doing it, if you can make sure you get a good distance away when you do it, it's really good. But yeah, blocked, you could be in some trouble afterward. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 10:17 PM: that's a nasty tactic... Honda really IS meat jk but that does sound like an effective tactic if given the oppurtunity to do it. I wonder if it's possible to time it for meaty games(since lag is involved).. do it then block, then when they react, nail em and if they dont, throw em __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 10:19 PM: Yeah, thats why I never really SBK. Its usualy blocked.. but its sometimes cool to mix it up by throwing a LK one in as a meaty attack. I am convinced on the old SF2 she says, "spinning star kick" LOL Chun Li is the shit in CvS __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 10:19 PM: hey, my post on the fake fireball dissapeared. where did it go? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Hero on April 10th, 2001 10:19 PM: Mini strats for Morri this time! I can't believe how much fun she can be, despite her rep as not one of the best characters out there. First off, her projectiles are wicked. Play with 'em like you would with Ryu on the ground, and always be smart with her air projectile. One thing to keep in mind is if it looks like she'll fall on something when in midair, you can always go into the soul fist to kinda 'lag' your fall. Sometimes this can make a big difference in whether or not you get punished. Plus it's great for playing mind games. Her chain combos are fun to use too. Just like Ryu, all the pressure/poke tactics apply. Always switch up, stop at any moment for a throw, or do a intentional delay. This way the opponent never knows what's gonna come next, but more importantly, they'll try to abuse an opening even if it's one you intentionally put there. Her chains seem to help in this confusion area. Her c.lp hits twice, but can be cancelled right after the first. Sometimes I try c.lp x 3, never letting the 2nd hit come out, stall, and then either repeat the combo or throw. Once they think I'm trying to fake em out, go for the c.lps again, but let the 2nd come out on the last lp. Sometimes it works, and if it doesn't, it still gives a 'wake up call' to the other guy. Another useful move is her s.hk, mainly because it hits multiple times, can be used in her chains, and works as a pushaway if blocked. Only gripe I have is the lag included, but hey =) Oh, I shouldn't forget about j.db+hk, always a usefull tool for morri For supers, I find morri's really weak. Her qcf x 2+p is nice to punish air opponents, but only her lvl3 seems to have a decent invincibility frame. The hcb+k feels useless, and all I like to use it for is to get out of corner traps (since you end the move on the other side of the opponent). Darkness Illusion though, is awesome. Given Morri's chain abilities, and the fact you can two in one into DI, the super can really rack up damage. Since it's a lvl3 move though, I prefer to use morri last or 2nd when I put her in a team and put a battery character before her. I'm not too strong on morrigan though, so I'd love to hear any specific tactics you guys use (if you play w/her that is) __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 10:25 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hero For supers, I find morri's really weak. Her qcf x 2+p is nice to punish air opponents, but only her lvl3 seems to have a decent invincibility frame. The hcb+k feels useless, and all I like to use it for is to get out of corner traps (since you end the move on the other side of the opponent). Darkness Illusion though, is awesome. Given Morri's chain abilities, and the fact you can two in one into DI, the super can really rack up damage. Since it's a lvl3 move though, I prefer to use morri last or 2nd when I put her in a team and put a battery character before her. I'm not too strong on morrigan though, so I'd love to hear any specific tactics you guys use (if you play w/her that is) Actually, you underestimate the Cardinal Blade super. It is *really* fast. The only thing I have seen so far that beats it out is Guile's Punching super. As a matter of fact, you can do one, whiff, and if they try to crouching roundhouse or crouching short/jab you, you can nail them with another Cardinal Blade before thier hit connects with Morrigan. The only use I have for the Drill super is when I play SNK Iori and the Eight Wine Glass thing. I do the Drill super when he starts, hit him from behind, crouching jab once, Cardinal Blade, and juggle him in the air with another Cardinal Blade. All one combo ^_^ Darkness Illusion, yes, is so awesome. Morrigan is best optimized in SNK mode, for certain. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 10:36 PM: Well my post on the fake fireball dissapeared so I'll do it again. Like it was said before, Morrigan has a "hop back" on her air Soul Fist (qcf+p), which gives it a strange property. I believe the correct distance from the ground to "fake" the Soul Fist is the approximately the distance of the bottom of Morrigan's foot to the lower portion of her thigh (maybe slightly lower). Don't hold me to this, it is only a point of reference. There are two versions of it. 1) She will yell out "Soul Fist," start the "hop back," and will go into the beginning sequence of the fireball animation - a circular ball of light comes around her arms, which occurs right BEFORE the fireball leaves her - then the "hop back" kicks in and she lands on her feet, cancelling the whole thing. 2) She will yell out "Soul Fist," start the "hop back," and she lands on her feet, cancelling the whole thing. No beginning fireball animation. This one has to be done like, a microsecond later than the other, but this one has a faster recovery and still triggers the block animation. 1 is used primarily to fake - it doesn't have enough recovery to punish the opponent really, but still triggers the block animation and really freaks out your opponent. Alot of times, they won't know what the hell just happened and you can throw them. 2 has more practicality. She recovers much quicker and can dash foward and Vector Drain or oc+fp -> oc+rh and punish them for it. Both versions, however, trigger the block animation and she recovers *while* they are still in the block animation. ^_^ Toss it in with your fireball games with her, and you can really piss people off. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 10:39 PM: Yeah, Im a big fan of the Cardinal Blade. Just the fact u can juggle 2 of em is cool __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 10th, 2001 10:43 PM: In SNK mode, I also love how I can have a MAX meter, do a little combo, do her normal DP, combo her Level 3 Cardinal Blade in the juggle, then combo *another* level 1 Cardinal Blade. Sometimes even, I can do a second level 1 Cardinal Blade. Never hurts to try, especially since your not wasting a meter ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 11:05 PM: Not to get off the subject again, but do you need O.Iori to get Nak also? __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 11:39 PM: Im not sure.. I had him already when we got her __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 11:46 PM: Damn, cause thats alot of extra cash you need to have.. Are you sure that Nak is 8000?? Thats more than Evil Ryu or O. Iori.. Gr.. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 10th, 2001 11:49 PM: Maybe it was 7000, but no less than that. Pretty sure it was 8000 tho __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Monkey on April 10th, 2001 11:53 PM: ARG!! This is going to be more of a pain than I thought.. See, what I am doing now is, leaving it in training mode for 2 hrs and comming back with 999$. Then buying people if I can.. But I cant kill that much time.. All I'm trying to get is Nak. I'm going to practice with her for the upcomming tourney that I am going to.. THATS ALL.. I used to have everyone, but my file got messed up, and it wouldnt work at all, so I had to erase it.. It sucked ass.. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by GemInite on April 11th, 2001 12:40 AM: just dl the save from gamefaqs.com Posted by Monkey on April 11th, 2001 01:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite just dl the save from gamefaqs.com I cant, I dont have a account.. Unless you do, and you would like to hook it up with the user and password.. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by Mummy-B on April 11th, 2001 02:12 AM: ... or you could just register... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 11th, 2001 02:45 AM: I think he was talking about a dial up account Posted by VruS on April 11th, 2001 03:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Totally off topic: Has anyone ever tried tiger knee motions for people with air fireball motion moves? This tactic works well with Vice, Akuma, EX-Sakura <- she does a hurricane kick ALL the way up and back. Great for escaping. Sucks for people like ryo, morrigan though yes I do that all the time with akuma, they think I'm not attacking but then his air fireball comes out. Great tactic. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 07:45 AM: I wonder if that would work well w/ Ryo? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 11th, 2001 03:45 PM: Speaking of air fireballs, I am going to try the fireball "fake" with Gouki and Ryo. I'm sure if Gouki's triggers the block animation quite like Morrigan's, but if it did, and his recovery is good, he can so some serious damage because he comes straight in and doesn't have the "hop back" of Morrigan or the "stall time" of Ryo. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Monkey on April 11th, 2001 03:58 PM: What I was talking about, I dont have a sega.net account. I dont want to pay for it either. __________________ -Monkey Monkey4907@home.com The Shoryuken Tree Walker Posted by Mummy-B on April 11th, 2001 04:04 PM: Okay this is going to sound really wierd, but this is my most solid overall team, and deals very, very nicely with Guile and Nakoruru - "Charlie's Angels" Cammy King (I not optimized with her yet, I may change her out for EX Yuri) Morrigan Oh my goodness Cammy. Cammy, Cammy, Cammy. If she was a Ratio 2 she would rock Guile. My goodness. I am so consistent in either beating Guile playes with just her, or getting Guile's life so low that it doesn't even matter in the next round. King. She's pretty good. I'm not used to using her, but I am getting used to her. She't not *great* at stopping Guile and she's not *great* at stopping Nak, but she is *pretty good* at them. Coupled with my Cammy and my Morrigan, she is kind of the medium between the two, and the most flexible character. However, I like EX Yuri and she is damn strong. So I plan on using King for a while more and seeing how good I can get with her before I decide to make the switch out. Morrigan. A lot of people underestimate her. She is really good. I made it a specific point to pick her out and learn her to her fullest potential because people just don't use her. Because they think she is... well... useless. So no one really knows how to play her. Or how to handle her mind games. Nor do they know her full fighting potential (which is, in fact, very very good, might I add). Morrigan can chain combo like a bitch on speed. Almost ALL of her moves combo into each other. Her limbs have *excellent* priority and *all* are usable. Her Soul Fist is really annoying. She has a really solid DP. Her Vector Drain is awesome - especially when i catch people in the air with it Stops rollers dead in thier tracks. I'll get into my tactics later, I'm going to go take a nap for a while before my four o clock class. As for Honda... Cammy falls short of handling as well as I would like, but does a decent job. King, as a more flexible character, does a little better. Morrigan on the other hand, is quite proficient thus far. Probably because Honda players don't know what the hell to do to a Morrigan. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 05:21 PM: Very nice team! Shit, I would use it LOL Here are my feelings on each member.. Cammy: I agree w/ u that Cammy is REALLY REALLY good(all the r1's are). Especially now that Hoe Muffin enlightened me about the dbHK, LK Cannon Drill has Power Dunk x 2-ish recovery. EVen w/ out that tho she's a beast. I mean is it just me, or is her crossup easier to land than Nak's? (I think Vice's is the easiest). Even just Cannon Drilling then Cannon Spiking is a very effective tactic. Myself, I never really use the Hooligan Combination except verrrrry seldom. Like once every 2 matches. And I know Chen said something about that, but I honestly felt the same way before reading it. in fact, I was seriously shocked when I read that LOL I just think it's easy to counder and hard to do(relative to her other, better moves) Mummy-B, can you do that crossupLK, B+HP, bdHK, Cannon Drill combo? I can pretty much do any combo in the game, but I can not, for the life of me do this! I have gotten each hard link on it's own, but never successfully completed the whole thing. And it seems like it'd be easy too.. considering u the combo requires the stick to make a smooth motion. I stick w/ cLK cLK cLK Cannon Drill or cLK cLK dbHK Cannon Drill. (Fuck "Spiral Arrow") King: Moveswise, I think King may be the most equipt r1 character in the game. I've always felt this. Double Strike is VERY good. Tornado Kick is VERY good. Corner juggles, good crossup, high-hitting main combo(cLK cLK BDP+HK, juggle in corner) I always thought King was better than EX King character-wise, but still think EX is a solid character. But then I realized her combo is a backwards quartercircle instead of a backwards DP. My BDP acuracy is about 50% (sad, I know, but to go from crouch to BDP fast is tough on a pad) and my QCB accuracy is 99%. So I actually use EX King now because she's STILL good. I really miss the double strike and tornado kick, but having a consistant hard hitting combo for her crossup is well worth it to me. Morrigan: well, we've been talkin about er. i think she's great. On that ranking I wrote(which shockingly no one commented on!), I put her tied w/ balrog. And Balrog is the shit If I had to pick a MOST EFFECTIVE team... EX Yuri EX Vice Chun Li w/ Blanka subbing in for EX Vice now and then. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 11th, 2001 06:03 PM: I notice that King hasn't been getting much coverage in these forums, so why not start a discussion here? BTW, I was having a hell of a time doing that BDP thing too, but I think I've hit on a solution. Rather then 2 c. shorts, I've been fooling around with c. short then backwards short, that way, I only have to do a qcb roundhouse, MUCH more managable. Still need to check if it hits all the time though, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 06:37 PM: Yeah, I thought of that as well.. my prediction: it is a consistant combo.. but I simply cant do it very well. That's honestly the sole reason I went w/ EX. She's missing 2 good moves, but is still VERY strong.. and IM like 99% on her combo. I'll put some cool King tactics up later.. but it's mainly basic stuff plus some moves order ideas __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Aoishi2AL on April 11th, 2001 07:05 PM: Note that My arcades do not have CvS and no one I know ones CvS. I brush up reading the fucking forums. How do u roll? LOL. What's the best Orochi Iori Combo? __________________ "Those frozen blue eyes I want to hold them to my heart, The courage that disappeared, Remember Once Again --Misao (Ice Blue Eyes)" "Remember Aoishi2AL the sexiest dude that watches anime and plays video games at professional level." Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 07:26 PM: Poor soul.. rolling is LP+LK I think O Iori's best non-super combo is the same as Iori's.. crossup B+LK, cLK, cHP, QCB+P x 3 __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 11th, 2001 07:36 PM: Actually, against most people I don't do any fancy combos with Cammy. I don't usually ever use her super either, for that matter. I poke with her like it's funny. Guile can't seem to handle her poking very well at all. Starting the match with a Spiral Arrow taking a couple steps back, another, a few crouching shorts, crouching rh, step back, Spiral Arrow. Repeat. Really annoying. *Really* annoying. Guile doesn't like it. Hooligan Combination I only use a couple times - it works best when you do it as the get up, because most people have a tendency to try and block it rather than counter it. Why? I don't know. It's true though. But they get smart after they're caught once, you can be brave and try it again. Usually after a long while of poking I do it again and catches them off guard, or I mix it up with lp HC and low kick them. Well I have to call my ex-girlfriend because she has some kind of issue that needs to be dealt with, so I'll get back on in a couple hours as I have a class right after. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 11th, 2001 07:38 PM: I like using ex king cuz of her quick combos and easy juggles. e.g. crouchig short, short, short, qcb K for 8 hits if in corner add in dp-k then super for like 14 hits. Her jumping short also has insane priority Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 08:51 PM: yEAH, THAT'S WHAT i'M SAYIN ABOUT ex kING.. easy COMBOS. Whoops, somone hit caps.. Cammy does poke very well. "Poke like it's funny" LOL I dont have time NOW to put a bunch of tactics for each, but I will sometime today __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 11th, 2001 09:54 PM: Yeah King. I really don't have a strategy with her. I just kinda adapt to the situation. If anyone would like to know what I do in the case of certain characters let me know. Like I said, King is my "flexible" character. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 11th, 2001 10:35 PM: EX king can juggle her dp move after either a crouching roundhouse or fierce. She can also do a level 2 double strike after a throw. Shes got a basic croner trap of keep jumping at opponent with short XX crouching short XX combo if they jump at you they willg et hit by the short or a c-fierce Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 11th, 2001 10:35 PM: I agree about King, Mummy.. same kinda thing w/ Ryu and such.. She has some good tactics tho. Her crossup LK is very good. Beni-esque. King's game is her ground/meaty game. King has a really fast, irregular roll. So you can do this cool mind game.. When u knock someone down and play meaty games, incorperate a cross over roll. This will catch them off guard at 1st and they may not be mentally prepared to defend a switch. Then the next time, do it again.. they are getting used to this, so when they see u roll the 3rd time, they have their defense good and ready. But u can roll, then roll again just before wakeup and u cross over TWCIE! Then after that it's anybody's guess. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 11th, 2001 11:51 PM: going back a bit how do you do the fake soul fist with morrigan? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 12:20 AM: Ahh.. Morrigan. I remember her... This was actually explained a few times w/in this thread. I still havent done it, so Iwont try to explain it.. but back up a page or so and u should see a couple good explanations __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 01:23 AM: I read it but i dont get it, she does the motion and shit but it doesnt come out? wtf? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 01:30 AM: That's what I got from it... but again, Ive never done it __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 01:33 AM: okay so the fake is done like right before you land a jump? Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 01:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite I read it but i dont get it, she does the motion and shit but it doesnt come out? wtf? Okay I was doing it earlier today, so I'll try to explain it. What happens is, Morrigan has this "hop back" in the air when she does the air Soul Fist. Because of this, it gives the air Soul Fist a really strange property. If you do the air Soul Fist low enough to the ground, she'll do everything like normal, but when that "hop back" initiates, it'll totally cancel the fireball animation and go into her standing animation. Since the fireball animation was triggered, however, the blocking for your opponent still happens. So you skip from halfway in the fireball animation directly to the standing animation, much like how a reversal skips over the the standing animation - it goes directly from the getting up from the ground animation into the move you're doing. She has no recovery time what so ever when you perform this. If you want the post with all the info on how to do it and stuff, which explains a little more, I'll put it up again for you. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 01:35 AM: When you do it right above the ground, the "hop back" sends her like, diagonally up/back. Which is why she can land immediately in the middle of the fireball animation. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 01:52 AM: If they block high, do u land fast enough and close enough to possibly get in a sweep? I doubt, even if so, it wouild be easy to land in play.. but if u could.. nice __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 01:55 AM: Like it was said before, Morrigan has a "hop back" on her air Soul Fist (qcf+p), which gives it a strange property. *I believe the correct distance from the ground to "fake" the Soul Fist is the approximately the distance of the bottom of half of Morrigan's shin. Don't hold me to this, it is only a point of reference. There are two versions of it. 1) She will yell out "Soul Fist," start the "hop back," and will go into the beginning sequence of the fireball animation - a circular ball of light comes around her arms, which occurs right BEFORE the fireball leaves her - then the "hop back" kicks in and she lands on her feet, cancelling the whole thing. 2) She will yell out "Soul Fist," start the "hop back," and she lands on her feet, cancelling the whole thing. No beginning fireball animation. This one has to be done like, a microsecond later than the other, but this one has a faster recovery and still triggers the block animation. 1 is used primarily to fake - it doesn't have enough recovery to punish the opponent really, but still triggers the block animation and really freaks out your opponent. Alot of times, they won't know what the hell just happened and you can throw them. 2 has more practicality. She recovers much quicker and can dash foward and Vector Drain or oc+fp -> oc+rh and punish them for it. Both versions, however, trigger the block animation and she recovers *while* they are still in the block animation. ^_^ Toss it in with your fireball games with her, and you can really piss people off. Now, what essentially happens is that at a certain default distance from the ground, every character in CvS will go from the jumping animation directly to the standing animation. When you do this "fake," the "hop back" sends her slighty up, but as the fireball animation is progressing, she sinks back down. She then hits the default ground height that leads to the standing animation, which cancels the whole fireball. Make sense? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 01:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa If they block high, do u land fast enough and close enough to possibly get in a sweep? I doubt, even if so, it wouild be easy to land in play.. but if u could.. nice Actually, since they are already in the block animation, sweeping is difficult. Throws are every effective. Especially Vector Drain. It is really hard to break from the "faked" block animation into a counter unless you're used to being faked. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 02:50 AM: How bout we just not use the "fake" hehe its messing everyone up, and i dont see any real good use for it besides the fact it forces a block. Of course if they arent blocking you might end up eating something Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 03:50 AM: A few days ago I posted up what, in my opinion, were the character rankings for each ratio. I was shocked to see no one had anything to say about it.. In fact, i thought I was gonna get flamed LOL But those of you who analyse this stuff deeply like I do(Geminite, Hero, Hoe Muffin, Monkey, PSX, JChen, anyone else..), what are your opinions on those ranks? I truly feel they are accurate, but I'd love to hear any reason why you guys agree or disagree w/ me. if u want me to re-post em since theyre back a ways, lemme know and I will. Also remember that i forgot Morrigan(damn me).. but I later said I put her tied w/ Balrog. Lemme know! And just as a side note.. to all u guys who post on here all the time, thanx a lot for sharing ur tactics! Hopefully Im helping u guys as much as u're all helping me OK, touchy shit's over.. later __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 12th, 2001 04:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Since I started talkin about rankings.. here's how I'd put the other ratios... Remember, just my opinion r4: 1. Akuma 2. E. Ryu 3. O. Iori r3: 1. Yamazaki(reg. and EX are equally good) 2. SNK EX Sagat 3. EX Bison 4. Rugal 5. EX Geese(I prefer EX, but am actually not sure who's better) 6. Vega(Same as Geese) r1: I think all r1's(when the right mode) are about equal.. seems Sakura is the only one who's not up to snuff.. but I can never link her LP/LK's into her DP (sLK link?).. maybe if I could she'd b up there.. But who's to say EX Beni is BETTER than Blanka? I think both Kings are very good.. I like EX for easier combos, but I think regular is a little better. Ex Vice, EX Yuri, and Blanka are my personal fav's.. everyone is effective, but personally, those are the best 3 Alright, I'm guessing this is the one you're talking about . Anyways, no qualms with the Ratio 4, though I personally prefer O. Iori myself (I just think Iori's a stylin' bitch. Too bad he really loses some battles, if only he were a ratio 3). Ratio 3: I love Yamazaki, and there's no doubt in my mind he's the best ratio 3 period. Sagat is just flat out powerful, especially with 3 levels of super. However, I do fear Ex Bison more then Sagat. First off, I REALLY REALLY hate his standing roundhouse, it's like Yamazaki's standing roundhouse, really long, really high priority, and LOTS of damage. Oh yeah, that entire Devil reverse cross up thing is sorta irritating too . Rugal, Geese, and Vega all lack in key areas, I'll wait till someone flames me before I comment . Ratio 2: Ughhhh, so many, I'll do this later . Obviously Guile and Nak at the top. Ratio 1: As far as I'm concerned, the only really bad R1 is EX Cammy (Why is she even IN this game? She has NOTHING). I agree with you though, Sakura really gets the hurt put on her, especially since her standing roundhouse stinks to high heaven. Bleh. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 04:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa 1st off, I do not at all consider Honda(I use EX) a turtle.. I play him agressively. As for Honda losing to Yamazaki.. I dunno. But PSX is an expert so I'll take ur guys' words for it, but I think Honda can beat just about anyone when played well. Honda and Guile unstoppable? I belive it LOL I think the best r2s, in this order(remember, just opinion): 1. Nakoruru 2. Guile 3. Chun Li/EX Honda (tie) 4. Ryu/Ken/EX Terry (tie) 5. EX Kim/SNK EX Mai (tie) 6. SNK Iori 7. EX Balrog/Morrigan(tie) 8. Ryo 9. Kyo(EX Kyo is just about as good tho) 10. Zangief 11. Raiden (note, I think Raiden and Zang can b played very well.. just not as well as the others is all) I only put up the ex/normal version I use.. so dont get mad regular Terry and EX Guile arent on there Since its opinion based, im sure a lot of u guys will argue w/ this.. but thats cool, I wanna analyse it PS. I think Chun Li might be higher up than that And that's what i put for the r2's.. this game is just so well balanced. I mean Kyo is 3rd to last on my ranking and I think he still kicks ass. Also too note that I only put my personal normal/EX choice.. so EX Cammy, for instance, wasnt even taken into consideration I added Morrigan in the quote heh heh Thats cool we agree on the 1's, 3's, and 4's so far. I agreee about O Iori.. he's just so freakin cool! but practically, Akuma whips his ass. IMO, no way EX Bison is scarier than SNK EX Sagat. Not only is he strong, but unlimited super fireballs high and low can come in handy to a skilled FB-er __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 12th, 2001 04:26 AM: Whoops! Most have skipped over that. Sorry! I feel that Nak and Guile should be in a tier by themselves, since they're so freaking good. They don't ever win for free, but they don't really lose any matches either, (ah, the old mantra), so that alone makes them worthy of being alone. Still, the R2's are too close to call. Other then that, the R2's are really well balanced. I disagree a bit with the Chun Li/E. Honda being #2, I'd give that to the shotos and Terry, not that that's a huge change. To be honest, though, I haven't ever seen a good Raiden, so I don't have a whole lot of respect for him. Somebody prove me wrong! Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 04:34 AM: Yeah, i feel I pretty much hit the nail on the head w/ the ranks.. but of course I would think that, I wrote it LOL I dont think Guile and Nak are THAT far above Chun and Honda.. I can stuffeven a good Nak w/ just Ryu or Terry.. again, very balanced. Nak and Guile are the best for sure.. but I think they're revered a weee bit too much. but again, I dont play w/ the SoCal boys, so I cant say for sure. I think my Raiden is usable LOL For fun at least.. soeone asked me for tactics w/ him and I wrote a bunch. He's the worst to be sure, but has has.. um.. some stuff LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 12th, 2001 05:47 AM: To be fair, a lot of these rankings are influenced by how familiar I am with the characters, I don't have nearly the same amount of empirical data that Arcadia has. For instance, I think 'Gief goes way up there, but I've been playing him for the longest time, and, well, he's the Red Cyclone. Guile and Nak are better, but they're not head and shoulders. I'd say an inch or two (this is getting strange) above the rest of the R2. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 07:39 AM: This has BEEN weird LOL I know what u mean, but Ive used every character extensively on the DC. I think Zangief can be a killer.. just not as much as those I ranked above him. Good balance __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 01:59 PM: With Ratio 2's this is my listing 1. Nakoruru 2. Guile 3. Ryu/Ken 4. EX terry/Honda (tie) 5. Gief/SNK EX Mai (tie) 6. chun li / EX kim 7. EX Balrog/Morrigan(tie) 8. Raiden, Ryo 9. EX Kyo Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 02:01 PM: For ratio 3's I definately fear EX Bison more than sagat. But at the same time i fear expert bisons more than yamazaki. Only problem with Bison is if you make one mistake you will get punished heavily from people like guile/ryu/ken Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 02:05 PM: for my ratio ranking i think id even tie gief/ ex mai with ex terry / honda. In ratio 1's King EX-Yuri Blanka/Dhalsim/ex benni/ ex vice/cammy / sakura ratio 1's are very balanced IMO Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 03:31 PM: Gief that high? No way! LOL U must play w/ some nasty 'gief players. My brother is actually pretty good w/ him. Upset a few Ryu's here and there. but no way is he as equipts as the others. Chun Li that low? She's my fav! LOL U need to start using that flip kick you forgot Iori If I had to order my r1's, I'd say.. 1. King 2. EX Yuri 3. EX Vice/Blanka(tie) 4. Dhalsim/Cammy(tie) 5. EX Benimaru 6. EX Sakura But very balanced.. so dont let EX Beni's #5 fool you __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 05:26 PM: Guile: I have seen gief players pull FAB out of vice's rush. That was sick, basically anything that comes off the ground is asking to eaten by gief e.g. sobats, hop kicks the slightest distance and you're dead. Oh and gief can pile drive through fireballs Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 05:27 PM: I know someone is gonna ask about this but with gief you can dash and then pile drive them as long as they are still in the animation frame. e.g. fireball is out but ryus arm is still out you can dash/grab them and you'll go right through the fireball. Or better strat glove XX pile driver Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 05:29 PM: Oh and about chunli. I know shes damn sick only one person plays her good here. I hate her damn spinning bird kick priority crap. Her jumping short beats like everything Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 05:42 PM: Like, I said.. Gief IS good! Just not as good as the others, when speaking in terms of winning potential. I even thnk Raiden can be used well. Yeah, as Ive said before, IM about Chun's jLK and Flip Kick.. I could write a little thing on er if u'd want. But I consider her to be my best character by far at this point __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 05:48 PM: I dont doubt your skill with chun li, shes fast and dangerous and his quick combos. I like her in SNK mode. Well im off to the local arcade now i'll post more later tonight Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 06:41 PM: Yeah, Chun = mind games up the azz. She's the best Geminite(and all u guys), what are your opinions on Balrog vs EX Balrog? I think both are about equal. Prob the most even EX/non EX in the game(including Terry, his EX is better) I go w/ EX because Im a throw machine, but I kinda wish I had the Headbutt I like em both a lot tho and think either can whip anyone when played right __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 12th, 2001 10:07 PM: I prefer having the head butt because as long as im holding down back i can throw out any of his moves. One simple tactic i use is hold jab and chage release jap then forward and whatever for quick attack. Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 10:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite How bout we just not use the "fake" hehe its messing everyone up, and i dont see any real good use for it besides the fact it forces a block. Of course if they arent blocking you might end up eating something Well, since it triggers the block animation and Morrigan has no recovery, I can take a nice 1/8 of your life with a Vector Drain, or I can toss you. In the event you don't block, I'll chain the oc+fp -> oc+rh. The whole idea of the "fake" is that you don't know that I am doing it. I usually toss it in with a series of ground and air fireballs. Since this is a risky tactic with those who have efficient DPs like Ryu, Ken, Kyo, Iori, etc. it works the best on Honda players simply because they counter jumping attacks with the Headbutt Charge. Unfortunately, when the Headbutt Charge meets a air Soul Fist, Honda loses. Timing the fireball correctly to meet his head it makes that Headbutt Charge kinda risky. This is where the fake comes in. The fear of trading with the Soul Fist makes them want to roll or block and counter *after* I land, which is actually possible provided they block an air Soul Fist that I actually shoot at them. However, since the block animation triggers and I have no recovery, I can toss Honda's flab across the screen. It's just basically a mind game - are you willing to try the counter and get hit? Are you willing to try and block? ... very effective mind game against Honda exclusively, I have yet to try it on anyone else. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 12th, 2001 10:39 PM: Yeah, like I said.. I think both 'rogs kick ass. I like to pressure w/ well timed rolls and cLP strings into jab Dash Punches and mix in throws.. which works well w/ EX Balrog because his K throw is so good Good tactic is to follow dash punches w/ sHP __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 12th, 2001 11:15 PM: Actually, EX Sakura on SNK Groove is pretty scary. One of the things you have to really master with her is the charge on her Hadouken. That can take people out of the air and punish rollers nicely. Also, her overhead kick (f+lk) is a really good thing to use on someone getting up. You would be surprised how many times that connects with people getting up, and it goes nicely into a crouching roundhouse. Also, her punch throw is really annoying as well. When her life is low on SNK Groove, this is where she's scary. Now alot of scrubs abuse the whole Desperation thing on SNK Groove, but EX Sakura is one of those people that you just do it with and it's valid. Jumping rh into a Haruichiban, follow it up with a Shinkuu Hadouken. The slow ass Shinkuu Hadouken *really* throws people off. When they jump over it, hit them with a charged up Hakouken, fire off another Shinkuu Hadouken as they get up and follow it with a Haruichiban. Her Shoryuken Desperation is not so great because it doesn't have really good priority. It does, however, combo nicely into a charged up Hadouken after punishing a roller. The nicest thing about Haruichiban is how it hits *low*, so following a Shinkuu Hadouken blocked will almost ensure a connection. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 13th, 2001 02:01 AM: Cool.. I may need to try this stuff out. Sakura is the only character I'm unfamiliar enough w/ that i cant offer many strats and tactics.. I do know tho that she has a good crossup.. but what is her best non-super combo? I have trouble linking anything(even standing LK) into the DP. If I found a strong, easy combo w/ her I would be able to re-evaluate her __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by VruS on April 13th, 2001 03:11 AM: Well trying out ex honda on my friends made them really annoyed. They didn't scream out motherfucker when I introduced guile , but he carried my team. Still trying to work out the timing on the jab headbutt anti-air. It's not that easy for me. It's too bad my honda get's beat by my friends' ryus. Posted by GemInite on April 13th, 2001 03:16 AM: Fuck im sick about hearing people with EX honda and their love for wilson !!!! arrgh i bet you'd use ex-cammy too if john choi won a tourney with her. Posted by GemInite on April 13th, 2001 03:17 AM: as for sakura (regular you can combo in a super fireball or a jumping fierce after her uppercut move. Posted by GemInite on April 13th, 2001 03:18 AM: Oh anyone have any tips on how to combo in DP moves after a sweep? e.g. king. I can never seem to get the timing right. Posted by VruS on April 13th, 2001 03:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Fuck im sick about hearing people with EX honda and their love for wilson !!!! arrgh i bet you'd use ex-cammy too if john choi won a tourney with her. It's not that really. I'm not sure but I think normal honda needs to charge down more than ex honda. It's just easier to do (d)c.short u+k with ex honda than with normal. I dunno it just "feels" that way. The only character I used after watching a tourney vid was ex yuri. I heard about honda/ex first and tried both before I got the video. Posted by GemInite on April 13th, 2001 03:55 AM: faster charge i dont think not Posted by Mummy-B on April 13th, 2001 03:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Fuck im sick about hearing people with EX honda and their love for wilson !!!! arrgh i bet you'd use ex-cammy too if john choi won a tourney with her. Actually, I personally like being a "rouge" player. I don't like to use conventional characters. Hence, I try to master strange people like Morrigan and EX Sakura, rather than Nak, Guile, Honda, or the top tier considerations. I am one of those people who would like to make obscure characters no one really pays any attention to something they *have* to pay attention to. EX Cammy. Yeah, if I started winning with her, I'd either be CvS god, or everyone I played would have to be really intoxicated. Or both. Yeah, probably both. ... Oh yeah, forgot to add this. Who is Wilson? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Infiniti on April 13th, 2001 04:23 PM: what's wrong with cammy? __________________ -Infiniti 15:38 Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 13th, 2001 04:46 PM: There's nothing wrong with Cammy. EX Cammy, on the other hand, is probably THE worst character in the game. Take Cammy, and get rid of all her useful moves. Then you get EX Cammy. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 13th, 2001 04:53 PM: Personally, I like to come up w/ my own stuff.. but if I see a vid w/ tactics that I know I could exploit to their fullest, it would be dumb for me not to utilize it. Borrow, rip off.. doesnt matter. All about the W. If I hadnt seen Valle's Kim videos, I never would have given Kim a 2nd thought(well, maybe after reading all the resulting posts, but u know what I mean). That sounds like ripping off other people's strats, but honestly, how flattered would you be Gemenite if you saw a whole arcade of people going "Check it out! I'm using Honda just like in the Geminite video!" LOL Choi won w/ EX Cammy? That's weird because I just put her on my team last night.. (joking of course) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 13th, 2001 04:59 PM: Alex's Kim video? Is there a place to download that? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 13th, 2001 05:04 PM: Yes, and you're there. Multimedia.. unless they got rid of that one He wipes JChen out in one of em nasty like(no offense to James.. we still know he's the king) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Supergeek on April 13th, 2001 05:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin Alex's Kim video? Is there a place to download that? Go to multimedia, Capcom vs SNK, download any video with ALEX VALLE in the title. __________________ I love you Ashley, and you have a special place in my heart and soul. -_^ Have the hindsight to know where you've been, the foresight to know where you're going and the insight to know that you've gone too far. Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 13th, 2001 05:05 PM: D'oh, guess they're gone now . I can't find them in the CvS multimedia section. Posted by Hero on April 13th, 2001 05:30 PM: bwa...I just got through playing with EX Ryo. How come people don't realize how much fun he can be? Losses his air fireball, but gains a crapload of moves. Anyone have strats for him (I'd post some, but litterally I played him for the first time yesterday)? __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by GemInite on April 13th, 2001 05:31 PM: What i was trying to say is people only picked up EX-Honda because of wilson. Its cool to mimic and shit but come on you gotta try other things. IMO ex honda is VERY predictable. If you use honda you will know how he works and be able to beat him everytime. People lose to him cuz they are careless Posted by jchensor on April 13th, 2001 06:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite What i was trying to say is people only picked up EX-Honda because of wilson. Its cool to mimic and shit but come on you gotta try other things. IMO ex honda is VERY predictable. If you use honda you will know how he works and be able to beat him everytime. People lose to him cuz they are careless I don't necessarily agree. I think Honda is a VERY deadly character, even if you DO know what he's gonna do. Because if he Rolls and Splashes all day, yeah, he becomes predictable. But he has so manymore options than that... This is where I DO agree with you. I've argued with Jason Wilson about this a few times already... I think REGULAR Honda is by FAR better than EX-Honda, and I keep telling Wilson he should use regular Honda, but he won't listen. ^_^ Anyhow, adding the SPD to his arsenal makes him MUCH more powerful, IMO... Because now, from a short distance away, you can: 1) Roll and Roundhouse Splash (Best attack and pressure) 2) Roll and Short Splash (hits people who try to jump up and counter the splash in the air, but can be high blocked and punished) 3) Roll and SPD 4) Fierce Headbutt 5) Roll and Roll again and do any of 1 through 3. Mind games galore, here. But I do think that it is essential to use Regular Honda, because having the ability to Roll and instant SPD is so good, IMO. I think that is by far more worth it than the two-hit Jab Headbutt anti-air and the storable charge super. And I'd rather use Honda's super meter for his Level 3 SPD anyhow. Honda is definitely a good character. You CAN learn to fight him pretty decently, but that doesn't mean he's easy to beat and predictable. If the Honda becomes predictable, that is the fault of the player and not Honda. I personally believe there is not a single character in CvS that cannot be played unpredictably. - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by GemInite on April 14th, 2001 04:47 AM: Jchensor: I posted a bunch of regular honda strats on page 4 of this forum including the traps that i use. Its basically a longer version of what you just wrote and what beats what. When the Wilson video came out, everyone here in Toronto was like that honda is like GemInite's minus the 360's. Regular honda IMO by far stronger Posted by GemInite on April 14th, 2001 04:50 AM: Id like to show off my honda at ecc6 but i dont think that is gonna happen. The people that i play here in Toronto are just casual friends, im not about to get into a car with them and go to the States. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 14th, 2001 10:23 PM: As soon as Geminite mentioned adding 360/720 games to his already nasty special move game, I don't see why anyone would want EX Honda now. I just figured a walking hundred hand slap was worth losing 360 moves since I dont do them so much. I stand corrected. JChen, what does Wilson say is his reason for prefering EX? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 03:41 AM: ThisGuile: hehe see the influence of the big names. But you see what i mean with all the strats i posted. They work REALLY well. If you time 360's good you can nail them with like 5 in a row. Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 03:44 AM: Guile: and member regular hondas fierce hand slap makes you step forward so it helps. A walking handslap is a little bait. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 15th, 2001 08:07 AM: I'd still b curious to see why Wilson like EX tho.. a player of his caliber wouldn't pick a 2nd best character to be stylish.. But as far as now, im convinced regular Honda is better __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 12:46 PM: Finally someone who sees regular honda is better. Perhaps wilson likes the quick 2 hits that honda can get. e.g. RH butt drop XX crouching medium kick Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 03:23 PM: Well something new came up for me. I was playing akuma and I was facing zangief. Being the dumb ai he is I pull off a light hurricane into dp. I waas planning to do qcfx2+p but instead I did another dp. Guess what, it connected too! This was also close to the corner. After the second dp I tried to do my super again but I still messed up my code . How the hell did I connect 2 dp's in a row? and gem did you ever come to woodbine arcade before? Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 03:56 PM: Vrus: I am a Scarborough Town Centre / Video Amusment and Orbit regular, i have never been to woodbine. odds are you connected the DP just cuz you were close to the corner. If you tried a super after it would have missed cuz you would have lost juggle priority Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 04:04 PM: Vrus: When you say woodbine are you talking about woodbine centre in etobi? The one with like amusement park right in the middle of the mall? Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 05:14 PM: yes the woodbine centre in etobi. hardly any competion here. still I tried in practice mode to connecct 2 dp's in a row but failed. What a fluke. Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 05:46 PM: Vrus: Woodbine sucks indeed, all the top level comp in CvS is on the east end. As for akuma i'll try the dp's with him later. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 15th, 2001 06:59 PM: Hmm.. I knew u could do 2 hurricane kicks then a DP, but not 2 DPs... thats cool.. Perhaps it just has like a 3 special move juggle limit or something __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 09:26 PM: woodbine used to be good. really good. They had these magic cards which you used like 13 cents on dollar games. Man now, total ****ing garbage. The changer gives major attitude, and is too lazy to change a damn 20. I heard he's pissed because they made him work over his limit or something like that. Arcade manager over there still hasn't heard lower prices brings more money. Oh well, slowly they're lowering prices. Now back to akuma. See that was the odd thing. This was my string. A blocked c.lk xx unblocked light hurricane xx light dp xx dp (light or hard I don't remember). This was near the corner, not right at the corner. I was amazed my self when the 2 dp's connected. Posted by GemInite on April 15th, 2001 09:46 PM: I tried the 2 dragon punches and it does not connect at all. Vrus: If you ever come to Scarborough you will find heavy competition there. this is the webpage for Toronto Street Fighters http://www16.brinkster.com/sto01/index.html Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 10:59 PM: heh I've tried to react the whole damn thing but no success. What I pulled was an awesome fluke that I wish I had on tape =[ I've only went to stc once and it was when they had war:final assault there and wooped for about an hour there. It's packed over there. Posted by Dank on April 15th, 2001 11:07 PM: I don't know about Akuma, but I know for a fact that Ryu's DP can be used in a juggle. Get your opponent in a corner, then execute a LP DP. Then, catch them on their way down with another Shoryuken, or, if you really want to be brutal, a SSR super. Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 11:20 PM: dank how many times have you done that. 2 shoryukens in a row with ryu. Just wonderin how many times your fact is proven. Even I couldn't land 2 shoryukens in a row with ryu. Posted by Mummy-B on April 15th, 2001 11:30 PM: You can do two DPs with Evil Ryu, but not normal Ryu. That is a fact of life in CvS. However, you *can* lp DP, Shin Shoryuken. That's the closest thing. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by VruS on April 15th, 2001 11:38 PM: still doesn't answer how I hit 2 dp's with akuma though. I also knew about the jab dp xx shinshoryuken. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 12:27 AM: Vrus: It was probably fluke, i dont see any way possible of it happening again. And yes STC is always packed. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 12:31 AM: Vrus: Video Amusment is probably the biggest gathering ground for SF, Tekken players. All the games are 25 cents there Posted by VruS on April 16th, 2001 12:54 AM: it's too bad they're all far away considering I live in etobi Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 01:29 AM: Vrus: You might wanna look in the matchmaking and get togeathers forum, we have a toronto forum there Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 16th, 2001 07:01 AM: Does evil Ryu have any advantages over Akuma at all? Im not sure if one is faster or slower.. but it seems like E Ryu is just Akuma w/ no air fireball. I forget if Akuma has the hopkick, because I think in some games he does and in some games he does not.. If Im remembering correctly __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 03:23 PM: I dont find evil ryu as effecive, they have same moves, i also am not sure about the hop kick and im too lazy to go downsairs and try Posted by jchensor on April 16th, 2001 05:31 PM: Okay, to settle this Two Shoryuken's in a row thing with Akuma / Evil Ryu... I've landed THREE Shoryukens in a row with eitehr of them before. ^_^ The rule is simple: The Shoryuken can warrant you only TWO HITS MAXIMUM of Juggle. If you Jab DP someone in the corner, you'll get three hits: first hit of DP, and two Juggles. Boom, that's it, no more Juggles from a DP. HOWEVER, if the Jab DP, by some fluke, only connects for two hits, that means one hit plus one Juggle... you get one more Juggle! So another Jab DP, boom, one hit. However, I've done a Jab DP so that the enemy gets hit by the VERY top of the DP. Hits them once out of the air in the corner. But that's only one hit! And you get two Juggles. So I do another Jab DP, but it still barely nicks them at the end of the DP. That's one Juggle. But I'm still on the ground. So I do a third DP, whic again nicks the enemy at the height of the DP. Third hit, second Juggle. After that, the DP won't Juggle anymore... so I do a Level 2 Super DP and Juggle for three extra hits. ^_^ But basically, the total number of Juggles you can get out of DPs and Hurricane Kicks is 2. So if you do a Jab DP on a jumping opponent and it hits twice (only one Juggle), try and go for a Roundhouse Hurricane Kick when you land to get in that one more Juggle. So in the Zangeif fight you had, Vrus, you nailed 'Gief with a LK Hurricane Kick. That knocked him into the air. You did a DP, which I'm guessing, only hit once (either a side swipe or a deep hit that just had the next hits miss... I've seen that before, it's in one of my combo videos). That's one Juggle. So you did another DP and it Juggled again. Two Juggle hits total. Does that clear things up? - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 16th, 2001 05:55 PM: Thanx, JC.. Actually, I figured it was something like that because I have done the 2 DP thing before too. I didnt say "Ive done that too!" because it looks like IM saying it to get attention, but I have done that and I figured since I know for a FACT that u can get 2 LK hurricanes then a DP, it makes sense that there might just be a "special move juggle limit" or something __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 16th, 2001 06:12 PM: I'd like to know if any one out there knows how to play a good sakura game she is one of mah favs yet i dont yet have the skills to use her well enough to kill a enitire team. __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 07:27 PM: redcold: EX or regular sakura? Posted by Redcoldfire on April 16th, 2001 08:09 PM: either or sakura i ihave decided which one i like more __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 08:11 PM: well ex- sakura has one extra super and she has a normal DP. although regular sakura does have more juggles e.g. her uppercut can be followed up with a jumping fierce or a super fireball. Posted by Redcoldfire on April 16th, 2001 08:16 PM: thanks for the tip... yet i knew that already. who do you think is better in the end, ex or normal?? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 08:32 PM: I prefer the EX version cuz of full screen fireball, air hurricane, i find her to be more mobile, i mainly use her as battery for super with say ex yuri or king 2nd. My ratio 1 team is Ex Yuri, Ex king, Vice, dhalsim Posted by Redcoldfire on April 16th, 2001 08:36 PM: ahhh i see well thanks i think ill try being ex sakura for a while ..... thanks on the side my ratio 1 team is vice(normal, dont ask me why), sakura, cammy, and king( mah fav yet hardly play with her due to i alway win before then heh.....) thanks __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 16th, 2001 10:06 PM: Damn, the one char in that game I dont know specific tactics for.. EX Sakura.. Geminite.. u never told me before when I asked you, what do you consider to be EX Sak's bread n butter combo? Regular Vice? Wow.. obviously she's a strong character.. but I have to suggest you try EX Vice.. you WON'T be dissapointed Plus I can offer quite a few good EX Vice tactics Geminite.. that's a good team u use.. almost the same as my r1 team except I prefer Blanka over Dhalsim. Man, all the r1's are just so good! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 16th, 2001 10:15 PM: heh i love the ratio one line up ahh make me feel soo good as for the ex vice what are the strats/tactic you recommend? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 10:19 PM: Guile: Bread and butter for sakura is jumping HK, standing jab, standing fierce, Fierce dragon punch. When i play ratio 1's i play trap tems, hence ex king, ex-yuri, sim, vice. Not really traps with king but she can be annoying cuz of quick combos Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 10:21 PM: red cold. ex vice has great ground game. bread and butter combo crouching short, crouching jab, crouching round house. roundhouse has sick priority as does her jumping short. Crouching fierce for anti air. Posted by GemInite on April 16th, 2001 10:22 PM: EX-Vice again Her super (double hurricane kick) is too good. picks people off so easily. Jump in with short XX super. or jump in short XX nail bomb and another combo is standing jab, fierce XX rush thinge XX umm ait whip thing. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 16th, 2001 11:51 PM: Yes, EX Vice DOES have a great ground game. Her main weapons are stand fierce, crouch roundhouse, stand short, and crouch short. JChensor has written at length about EX Vice strategy, but I will go into her tactical ideas... 1st off Geminite was wrong about 1 thing(gasps in shock)... her bread n butter combo is: cLK cLK QCB+P DP+K. You can actually get in a 3rd cLK if you're close, but I dont push my luck.. I'd rather get 2 and let the whole combo work. That right there is what makes EX Vice far better than regular.. that combo. I also have experimented w/ cLK cHP xx QCB+P DP+K. But that one is harder to judge a block in time. Vice also has 3 of the BEST IN THE GAME of certain elements. Those are: crossup(jLK) anti-air(cHP) sweep(cHK) OK, her sweep isnt up there w/ Terry, Kim, or 'zaki.. but I still think its REALLY effective. Its really fast and has decent range. OK, that being said.. you mainly want to tell the opponent that they cannot jump at you because of your anti-air. Then you slowly advance. JChensor has likened this advance to a moving wall. This is where the sHP(has more range than you think), sLK, and cHK's all come in handy. Once you get in a sweep, THAT's when the fun begins. I dunno why, but at least for me, Vice is prob the easiest character to crossup w/. Maybe I'm just used to her, but more than any other character, I feel like I can judge a crossup w/ her w/o fail.. both regular and superjump induced.. Once u can start crossing up, that is when Vice's game really opens up. Standard tick vs combo games are accellerated w/ her because she has so many ways to do either! U jump in and there are just so many options. I've said the phrase "mix it up" a million times in this thread, but its really important.. and Vice can do it(tho she doesnt really need to too much). jLK xx super has become standard(tho I have trouble landing it.. but really she doesnt NEED it) But if u keep them at bay on the ground then find urself oppurtunitties to crossup, do it.. lands.. go into bread and butter. blocked, tick or bread n butter for 2 hits or so and crossup again. Once you're in w/ EX Vice, the opponent is in trouble.. and I consider her one of the easiest characters to get in w/. Just KEEP UR ATTACKS CHANGING!! Make sure they always wonder whats coming and you wont lose My r1 team is EX Yuri EX Vice Blanka EX King (throw in Cammy for Blanka or EX King) EX Yuri is the sht LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 17th, 2001 02:26 AM: heh . could you plz send strats about chung li i think i'd like to give her a try but if i go in head first know it will just make me mad thanks! Chung li ........... i thought i'd never use her..... too bad almost the only time i play is at the arcade... ill just have to use her there hopefully you can give me enough info on her so i can win a game with her( like take out an entire team ) __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 17th, 2001 02:51 AM: I feel the same way about "I cant belive I use Chun Li".. in fact when I 1st got the game, for some reason or another, she was the only chcracter I REFUSED to use. Then I caught wind of her flip kick......... I am at work and goin home soon.. I'll write my Chun stuff in a lil. I think she's definitly capable of taking out an entire team tho. My brother(my main competition) fears my Chun and Honda(but not EX, right Geminite?) much more than my Guile or Nak __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 02:57 AM: ThisGUile: I use the cLK, cLP, cHK as my bread and butter combo because i i play the poke game with her, but in one of my other posts i listed the bread and butter combo you use. and DAMN right Regular E-Honda. All Toronto SF players fear my honda. Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 02:59 AM: Chun li and rog are actually the only characters i have trouble with when i use honda CUZ IMO they are counter characters against honda rog specifically cuz most of his attacks are high and will either hit or trade with all of hondas specials. Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 03:00 AM: Speaking of rog if you're using gief has PD with K stops ALL of Rogs moves including supers The reason for this is rog dashes and does the attack at last frame whereas gief will just pull him right out. Posted by Mummy-B on April 17th, 2001 03:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Guile: Bread and butter for sakura is jumping HK, standing jab, standing fierce, Fierce dragon punch. Try a lp Shoryuken and then juggle a Shinkuu Hadouken at the end ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 03:04 AM: I hate facing chun cuz of her easy combos into umm that 3 hit kick shit and her bloody mobility. Shes just too fast she can easily follow her slow fireball right up to it. Her cHP, sHP has excellent range her jLK has crazy priority, her jHK does 2 hits. Shes just too mobile. I wouldent mind reading a faq about her Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 03:05 AM: fuck i hate my shitty dsl provider and how i can only post like 3 lines at a time or else the page will give me a server hang up. I'm surprised it lets me write e-mail. Posted by Redcoldfire on April 17th, 2001 03:22 AM: thanks ill be waiting for the update on the chung li things i can use..... unfornately the only time i can play is at he arcade or sometimes if my friend is home( we are equaly matched yet i want to succeed over him) since mah parent refuse to buy me a dc consel oh well i just play the people at the arcade they seem about my level... __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Sho 2 on April 17th, 2001 04:07 AM: I have been wondering about which version of Rugal is better. I kind of like EX Rugal better because although the Rugal Execution has MAJOR startup lag (we're talking him thinking about do the move before doing it in mid-battle)after which travels pretty quick. And he's also... kind of cheap with repeated air QCF+P moves, but I never use because I not really good and kind of have badluck anyway. I really like using him because he is the easier person for me to combo into the a super with,well a super with a double fireball motion. I also like because I'm pretty sure that his uppercut has THE BIGGEST hit box/range of all uppercuts in the game (unless Haohmaru has an even bigger one) but I'm not really sure about priority. What I'm just looking for the better version and a general strat. P.S. Rugal Execution is HCB+P and I'd help some but I consider myself a scrub. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 17th, 2001 08:58 AM: I love Chun Li in CvS. I rank her #3 tied w/ Honda. Not sure where to begin.. Chun Li has 2 main weapons. This is not to say she's a 2 trick character, not by any means.. she can do a million things, but they all eminate from and/or lead to one of these 2 things: 1. Her jumping LK 2. Her flip kick Jumping LK: OK, it's well known this has a lot of priority. It also has the freeze property(a la Vice / Shoto). So as soon as you hit that button, unless u're swatted out of the air, the kick is gonna connect, even if blocked. It's ranges(jump and superjump) are good and different than the Flip Kick's range, which is good because it gives you attacking options at all different ranges. The jumping LK is also really safe due to it's high priority. I mean, Ryu/Honda/Anyone with good anti-air CAN beat it out.. but you also have to be smart w/ the timing. Its just more liberal than a crossup w/, say, Yuri. Flip Kick: This is simply a great move. It has many purposes as it has multiple ranges where it can connect. You can crossup w/ it if you want, you can NOT crossup w/ it. Usualy the cross is better, but when thats what they expect, the non-cross version can also lead to confusion(alread the mind games are formulating). This move is nearly abusable. I mean if u flip kick and that's all, you'll die. But it is generaly very safe unless they expect it entirely. Even when it's blocked you're still pretty much all good. Chun Li has a lot of good pokes. And she can poke FAST. I use these pokes both to SET UP her main weapons, and to FOLLOW them. Her sHP and cHP are fast, strong punches that quickly establish space control and have fair range. Her dbHK has good range and can be used kinda like Cammy's, except she doesnt have a combo follow up(but that's OK). Her dfHK is strong, safe, and has very good range. Her standing HK is ok to mix up w/.. there are better standing pokes in the game, but again.. Chun's pokes are really fast and that's good. Her LP's and LK's, standing and crouching, are really good. They dont come out rapid fire like a Shoto's, but they come out quick enough to lay pressure on w/o seeming like ur just mashing a button. Makes her poking seem very methodical. Seems slow because its not boomboomboom, but really is very quick. Some may disagree w/ what I consider to be her bread n butter combo.. but I only go for it after a jump in. I just jump in w/ LK and just before it hits, I mash LK so she goes jLK, sLK, Lightning Kick. Very easy. Also, it's common knowlege that a landed Flip Kick can result in a D, U+K juggle. So my game plan will revolve around walking and dashing at oppurtune times to get at different distances. And since she has so many distances from which she can lay on her attacks, she can very quickly mix you up. So from a superjump distance, you can go into a jLK, you can do that from closer, you can Flip kick, etc.. so I will play a poke game till I think I can jump in w/o getting swatted. Doesnt matter if my kick will LAND, I just wanna get in. And if u see the kick is blocked, stop mashing LK. You have time! Most chars, you dont have the time to react to block/hit after the initial jump in. If my kick is blocked, I then play my poking game or I throw. But think about this.. you have so many options when u do land! It's almost like the jump kick being blocked HELPS you. Like I'll jLK(blocked), then cLK, then flip kick. Or jLK(blocked), sLP, cLK, flipkick. Or jumpLK(blocked), then cLP, cLK, sHK, jump in again w/ LK. You just have sooo many options from so many ranges once you're somewhat in. And this is just from a blocked jump in! Then if u score a knockdown, her meaty games are nuts. Every single one of her attacks are so fast. You can knock someone down then flipkick twice before they get up. That's a lot of power.. So on a meaty attack I could dash in, flip kick. I could jump in w/ LK(too early), cLK, FlipKick. Or flip kick, cHK(makes them think 'they're screwed') but you recover before the getup.. flip kick. And remeber too the flip kick wont crossup from some distances.. so you can poke from like a 2 inch away range as they get up then flip kick STILL and hit them from up front(beware good wakeups tho). And if a jump kick or flip kick ever misses or is blocked, that's where her pokes come in.. she has a poke for every range.. so u can always pout something out to push you to either: a. a safe distance b. a distance where you can continue to attack Plus.. when you do that poking.. you can mix in ticks as well. As long as you can make flip kicks and jLK's occur when not expected, you're golden. And w/ her quick dash, you can change your ranges up a lot. So you can see why she has just soooo many options and ways to confuse.. and that doesnt even include D, U+K as anti air, her fireball, SBK, OR her supers! Dash in, flip kick, flip kick again, cLK, sHP, jLK endless ammounts of strings you can devise on the fly to keep the offense going. Always safe too.. worse thing that will happen.. the fight will reset and you'r back to poking. Big deal.. jLK when you can or something. And then when they finaly start to expect the flip kicks, dash in and block.. they try to defend against the flip.. throw em or sweep em. I dunno if you guys are getting a clear picture of what I'm saying.. it's kinda hard to describe because it's almost all about foot games. But many FAST options + safety = confusion and annoyance. Im dead serious when I say my Chun Li and Honda basically made my brother stop playing CvS LOL W/ Chun, it's just too easy to safely mix them up and attack from every direction. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 17th, 2001 01:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 I have been wondering about which version of Rugal is better. I kind of like EX Rugal better because although the Rugal Execution has MAJOR startup lag (we're talking him thinking about do the move before doing it in mid-battle)after which travels pretty quick. And he's also... kind of cheap with repeated air QCF+P moves, but I never use because I not really good and kind of have badluck anyway. I really like using him because he is the easier person for me to combo into the a super with,well a super with a double fireball motion. I also like because I'm pretty sure that his uppercut has THE BIGGEST hit box/range of all uppercuts in the game (unless Haohmaru has an even bigger one) but I'm not really sure about priority. What I'm just looking for the better version and a general strat. P.S. Rugal Execution is HCB+P and I'd help some but I consider myself a scrub. I made a post decribing the diffences in Rugal and EX Rugal before I'll try to find it and repost it, I used to use Rugal all the time. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 02:15 PM: This GUile: I like to throw in a slow fireball with chun then follow it and counter whatever they try to do. What do you consider chuns Anti Air? (assuming you dont have a charge) I use sHK the one where she kicks straight up Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 17th, 2001 05:58 PM: Haha, Mummy.. I also used to use Rugal all the time. I think he's really good.. but maybe a little slow for serious competition. Am I the only one who uses the green shield as a poke and antiair? LOL I think regular Rugal is FAR superior to EX Rugal. I see so many people talk about how good and how cheap is air QCF+P move is.. but I'm like, "umm.. if it's blocked, you're meat." not to mention it's lag time. Geminite: Sometimes I throw out fireballs w/ Chun when the matches have been "reset" just to show them "I have options that you have to look out for." Never thought to follow a slow one.. didnt know it was slow enough.. that will help even more As Antiair.. yeah, I like that straight up kick, and her farther away RH works well if they jump from farther. Or jump to meet them w/ LK. Or what i usualy do is walk/dash/roll(which to use depends, of course, on the situation) under the jump and go for the sweep as they land. (A trick that works REALLY well w/ Vice and Terry, btw __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by VruS on April 17th, 2001 06:34 PM: Tried using chun li today and wooped some. It's like she can take out anybody. Here's my strat poke with crouching and standing hp's. If they try to take to the air use your lk. On the ground dance a littleif they fireball jump, land throw. If they roll you throw. Going long range throw a lp fireball and follow it. Could be better if you dash first then walk. If they fireball it jump lk d+lp xx kick super. If they roll you throw. If you don't know what the hell they're trying to pull go into air and do a lk. Oh yeah poke with her sweep a lot. I really wish she had double jump in this game. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 17th, 2001 06:37 PM: Told u guys she kicked ass.. I still like poking w/ her kicks more than her punches.. but both are, of course, really good __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 07:27 PM: i'll try her out this weekend during casual play. Posted by lost4evr on April 17th, 2001 07:59 PM: I got some strats! One of my favorite ones is the "fly-away" air-hurricane kicks after fireball,when slowdown occurs after you hit an opponent with a fireball{combo or no combo} and you can kink the air hurricane to come out VERY low and REALLY fast. Now I know right now that all the pros are like psychic DP but this can be an effective fake out at high level play due to the fact that the hurricane kick if done backwards/forwards will clear a whole screen regardless, due to the fact that faster you input the command this "glitch" will propel the kick that much farther, lower and faster{love that fly-away}2. fly-aways can catch an opponent completely off-guard used offensively or defensively{this tech invokes a SERIOUS judgement call on the part of your opponent, using this/these tech's against unskilled players will make you a confidence-destroying nightmare due to the fact puts you/your opponent in that much of serious odd} Another great one is...jumping straight up when you are close{you'd be surprised Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 17th, 2001 08:08 PM: Heh, I've devoted my entire SF life to crushing Chun Li wherever she might appear. Her godly throw of death in SF2 when I was but a wee lad taught me the finer arts of manly language. The best way to deal with her IMO is to have a stored up DP. IMO Chun Li is one of the more psychic DP'able characters in the game, possibly because I spend a lot of time studying how she's played. Nothing personal, I just can't stand her . Ironically enough, playing against Honda and Chun-Li has taught me how to PD real late and basically made my Terry much better . The only time I use Chun Li is when she's EX, and that's cause I get a kick out of her aerial spinning bird kick, it kills everything . Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 08:33 PM: anyone have any sagat strats? EX or regular, I might learn him Posted by Mummy-B on April 17th, 2001 08:34 PM: Finally found my Rugal/EX Rugal post, here it is: --------------------------- Yeah actually, EX Rugal is one of those "paradox" characters because Rugal is really designed as a distance fighter that hits hard and fast in close and then plays the distance again. EX Rugal is distance character that has alot of in-close attack tactics with not alot of priority, and his new "God Press" is not nearly as good as it was with Omega Rugal (which is what is EX version is *supposed* to be like - play KOF 99 Dream Match for DC and the moves are *similar* but they didn't want to make him that strong in CvS). Essentially, they made EX Rugal suck pretty bad. He is really Omega Rugal on crack. I put him on the uselessness chart near EX Cammy. ... However, normal Rugal is alot cooler, the only problem is, his Genocide Cutter (his DP+k) is not really great. You have to really know the timing, and even then it can be hit out of alot. One of his best moves is the Kaiser Wave - hold the punch button and punish rollers with it, or even people jumping at you. Perhaps Rugal's best move is his qcf qcf + K Desperation - that thing has INSANE priority. I think it's even worse than King's Silent Flash. Level 3 does really good damage, and it is FAST. His qcb-hcf+p Desperation is good at catching people out of the air, especially at Level 3, but you have to do it DEEP. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 17th, 2001 10:21 PM: ahhh it feels like i can be a chung li fighter too hope she is all what she says she is ill be trying her out at the arcade today hope they'll all die horiible horrible deaths on the side... sinces i have never, ever.... used chung li could you tell me how to do the flip kick it sound like the whole basis of her game... i think i know what move your talking about but wanna confirm.. THANKS! __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on April 17th, 2001 10:37 PM: redcold: umm any reason why you call her chunG-Li? It's just Chun flip kick is crouch and hold down forward then hit short. Can be followed up by her umm d, u Kick for 3hits Posted by Redcoldfire on April 17th, 2001 10:41 PM: heh... i dont know i told you i never actually use her or read her i always just said chunG li ha thanks for the move and the correction i really seem stupid now MUAHaHa.. hey do you know where i could find e-honda stats? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by VruS on April 17th, 2001 11:11 PM: uh... they're all in the prev pages of these posts. Doe sanybody play with vega/balrog (claw guy). I don't play with him. It's not he's bad (or atleast I don't think he's that bad), it's his fucking ego that makes me avoid him. Posted by GemInite on April 18th, 2001 02:06 AM: red cold: I wrote a brief one on honda on pages 4 and 5 of this forum Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 06:37 AM: OK, I'll write a lil somethin somethin for EX Sagat(the version i use) and Vega.. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 07:11 AM: Sagat... Well, i use EX Sagat on SNK mode. I never really focus on Supermoves w/ Sagat. I go by my poking and Fireball DP patterns. This means I dont have to worry about charging, I can just play. but when I get to the red.. bonus! Anyone who plays EX Mai knows she has one of the cheapest(and therefore best) tricks in any SF game.. the unlimited Fan Super. Well, EX Sagat has a trick that's not AS effective, but similar. Just throw lots of super high and low fireballs. I mean, you cant lock down as well as w/ EX Mai, but what u gain is basically a fireball DP game consisting of ONLY superfireballs! Unlimited high and low tigers is a nasty thing As for his non super play.. it's just business as usual w/ Sagat. A slow moving but hard hitting poking game. Combos are harder to lang w/ Sagat, but more threatening(theyre very strong). Basically any jumpkick, any standing attack xx Tiger uppercut is his bread n butter. I like to play fireball games w/ Sagat until they decide they wanna advance. CvS is tough for fireballers because of rolls, but good for GOOD fireballers because of impatience. Sagat could benefit from less lag on his low tiger, but oh well. (And SNK fans complain THEIR characters were weakened heh) When they start to not wanna play fireball anymore and advance, mix up your defense and offense so they're not quick sure if you're rushin em or keepin em out. Like jump in w/ a LK, then cLK cLP QCF+LK or whatever and bat em away when they try to jump back. Then eventually they can get so impatient they jump stupidly and Tiger Uppercut tells them to be more patient.. fireballs.. Sagat also has a very dominating throw. Maybe it's more of a psycological thing, but when he picks you up and throws your ass in a corner, that's a little more defeating mentally than when Yuri hugs you IMO lol So I liek to incorperate a ticking game w/ Sagat when I can. Just chuck em all day if you can. Then you can start Psychic DPing.. Now that i think of it, Sagat beatings in general generally feel like they crumble you Sagat's really basic aside from his firball DP game. Good ranged, slow pokes and a string special move game. So mainly his tactics are universal ones w/ throws and pressure. Then when he's hurtin', unlimited cannons don't hurt the cause Also, I don't really use the Tiger Knee except when im poking at the air(so i do it when it's safe) just so as to say, "I could do that if I want" so they dont have tiger uppercut(or whatever) in mind. As for Vega.. there's a guide Chen wrote about EX Vega.. I really don't use him in this game. I love him in other games, but I hate how bad he is in this one. So i cant write a great piece on him.. but if you have any tactical questions or just want some general tricks, I can try and help. but for now, I'm just gonna refer u to Chen's EX Vega guide. (Do a search) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 18th, 2001 04:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa OK, I'll write a lil somethin somethin for EX Sagat(the version i use) and Vega.. the problem with ratio-3 characters is that they seldom beat 3 ratio-1 . however , they could be useful in the pair match mode(especially Yamasaki). Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 05:08 PM: Yeah, it seems kinda funny to me, too, that Vega is supposed to beat EX Yuri, EX Vice, and Blanka LOL Yeah, right. but seriously, I still like a good r1 - r3 team and I guess I count on my r1 putting in a little overtime. Just put Cammy(or whever, I love the r1's) in and see how long I can last, and have 'zaki take care of what's left __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 18th, 2001 05:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Yeah, it seems kinda funny to me, too, that Vega is supposed to beat EX Yuri, EX Vice, and Blanka LOL Yeah, right. but seriously, I still like a good r1 - r3 team and I guess I count on my r1 putting in a little overtime. Just put Cammy(or whever, I love the r1's) in and see how long I can last, and have 'zaki take care of what's left if your ratio-3 character has problems against only 1 ratio-1 , so the match is up for you. but,for fun why not.however i still think that losing is not very fun. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 05:27 PM: French team, which characters do you use? Competatively. Cuz we've all been sharing our favorite tricks w/ our fav characters.. Geminite.. I wanna play in a team tournament w/ ur Honda and my Chun Li lol __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 18th, 2001 05:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa French team, which characters do you use? Competatively. Cuz we've all been sharing our favorite tricks w/ our fav characters.. Geminite.. I wanna play in a team tournament w/ ur Honda and my Chun Li lol I have answered in "most solid CvS combinaison". we usually use effectively: Dhalsim,Blanka,All Snk ratio-1 characters,Terry and a little behind Ryu,Guile,Kim,Mai(all of them in Ex or normal mode except ratio 1) if u have any questions... Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 05:52 PM: Oh, i wasnt asking cuz I wanted to fire questions at you.. I dunno if you've read the other pages of this thread, but myself and a few other guys(Hoe Muffin, Geminite, Mummy-B off the top of my head) have just been analysing different characters and sharing all the little tricks and stuff we know w/ em.. So I was asking who you use and maybe u wanna share some stuff too. Also, if u havent seen the other stuff in this thread, u should check it out.. very informative! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 18th, 2001 06:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Oh, i wasnt asking cuz I wanted to fire questions at you.. I dunno if you've read the other pages of this thread, but myself and a few other guys(Hoe Muffin, Geminite, Mummy-B off the top of my head) have just been analysing different characters and sharing all the little tricks and stuff we know w/ em.. So I was asking who you use and maybe u wanna share some stuff too. Also, if u havent seen the other stuff in this thread, u should check it out.. very informative! yes,we have read almost everything written by psx2000 and you. this is interesting but nothing we do not have tested. if you want to know a few techniques with our characters,no problem... Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 07:16 PM: Well, Im flattered uve read all the stuff Ive put up.. You keep saying "we" Are you, like, team France or something? If so, I'd like to see your opinions on mine and Geminite's character rankings. Maybe u know of some cool stuff we dont and vice versa __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 18th, 2001 07:29 PM: j not you think its about time to start a new thread guile? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by shadowcharlie on April 18th, 2001 07:30 PM: f quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Finally found my Rugal/EX Rugal post, here it is: --------------------------- Yeah actually, EX Rugal is one of those "paradox" characters because Rugal is really designed as a distance fighter that hits hard and fast in close and then plays the distance again. EX Rugal is distance character that has alot of in-close attack tactics with not alot of priority, and his new "God Press" is not nearly as good as it was with Omega Rugal (which is what is EX version is *supposed* to be like - play KOF 99 Dream Match for DC and the moves are *similar* but they didn't want to make him that strong in CvS). Essentially, they made EX Rugal suck pretty bad. He is really Omega Rugal on crack. I put him on the uselessness chart near EX Cammy. ... However, normal Rugal is alot cooler, the only problem is, his Genocide Cutter (his DP+k) is not really great. You have to really know the timing, and even then it can be hit out of alot. One of his best moves is the Kaiser Wave - hold the punch button and punish rollers with it, or even people jumping at you. Perhaps Rugal's best move is his qcf qcf + K Desperation - that thing has INSANE priority. I think it's even worse than King's Silent Flash. Level 3 does really good damage, and it is FAST. His qcb-hcf+p Desperation is good at catching people out of the air, especially at Level 3, but you have to do it DEEP. cant you also pull off a genocide cutter after his gigaton press level3? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 07:31 PM: Do you think I should? I'd hate for this one to be forgotten about.. its got TONS of CvS information and its not character specific either. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 18th, 2001 08:33 PM: h it would be easy but true this thread has tons of good info hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 09:06 PM: As long as there are characters that havent been discussed.. Im trying to think which characters have been analysed here so far.. Honda Chun Li Morrigan Kyo EX Terry EX Vice Raiden Nak some Ryu Yamazaki EX Sagat some King some Cammy some Balrog some Rugal Iori aome Akuma off the top of my head. Plus a lot of universal tactics. I start other threads about specific stuff, but I like having this big general one to analyse the game in. My idea for this post was not to write about strategy like which pokes are good, but more about tactics and the actually little tricks we use to exploit characters, like ticks and specific mind games But if u think its time to start a new thread, I can.. or u can start it and I'd b happy to contribute. I just hope this thread has helped people. It's helped me(screw EX Honda lol) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 18th, 2001 09:09 PM: id like more rugal stuffsince i play him a lot. __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 09:34 PM: OK, well 1st of all.. I dont like EX Rugal. His god press is a joke and his air QCF+P is very over rated IMO. People are like "its cheap" and such.. but if it's blocked, you're meat When I 1st started playing, Rugal was one of my favs! I still think he's cool as hell, but he's a little slow. But that's OK. I wrote about taking move lag into consideration, so as long as you time your moves so you're safe after execution(hit or miss), then you're good I like that Rugal has a good crossup LK and also a damn good jumpin HK. Both are good to start combos. Use the HK if you just break someone's game down, but use the LK if you're playing a close, even game. His bread n butter is cLK cLK HCB+P. This might be easier if you can link a cLK into a standing LP or LP into the HCB+P. But Im not sure if any standing shots link, so i just go w/ the cLK's and hope my execution will be good. This is part of the reason I use Rugal less now. His DP+K also ends combos well, but the HCB+P does great damage As for his DP+K for antiair.. it's OK, but not on the level of a RYu/Ken DP or flashkick etc W/ Rugal I have a few modes of play which I switch around to mix things up Sometimes I play a fireball game w/ QCF+P and also F, HCF+P. This move is good if u can calculate it's lag. Snuffs jumpers from a distance and is decent for mind games I also like to play something of a poking game w/ him. But he's not the BEST guy for that.. but if you're able to advance and can get in a jLK you can play some good combo/tick games I love his green shield!! When u play someone fireball happy, reflect. not every time or they'll start formulating defenses to it. But now and then when u just KNOW theyre gonna fire atcha, psychic shield. I also like it as a poke. It actually can act as anti-air from a distance, but IM not sure how reliable that is. I tend to land it fairly often tho. I will also green shield sometimes from just inside sweep range if I anticipate a poke. It's a gamble, but it's pretty mentally defeating when it lands(suck on that, Balrog lol) Now that i think about it, I'd b very surprised if Rugal's standing LP, LK, AND HP didnt cancel into the HCB+P move. Yeah, but once u can get in and throw out jumping LKs and poke up close, you're good. His regular jump doesnt have much range which is good because you can cross up while close up, so you can maintain close-ness. Just be safe with your strings! His QCF QCF K super is pretty damn good antiair, especially at level 3. So thats good. I'd put Rugal after a good battery lvl 1 whose supers I dont even use. Cammy Rugal is a good team. Just remember: HCB+P HURTS and COMBOS __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 18th, 2001 09:51 PM: hey could you pos up something on king hse's my favorite i'd really like that THAnkS! __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Mummy-B on April 18th, 2001 10:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie id like more rugal stuffsince i play him a lot. Ummm... Rugal is kind of hard to play competitively, I used to use him when I first played because I liked him so much from KOF 94 on my Neo Geo CD console (lol so old) so I will try to help a little. ----------------------- First of all, don't use EX Rugal. Look before I did a post in here on him and he is pretty retarded. Capcom screwed the EX version. Use normal. Okay, Rugal is a Yamazaki style fighter as far as I am concerned. He plays the distance game and when he is in close, he hits hard, fast, and then backs the hell off. You have to poke with him alot like Yamazaki, except Rugal doesn't have *quite* the range as Yamazaki (who I consider to be the best Ratio 3 in EX mode). His crouching fierce kick is a pretty good poke and has decent range and is pretty effective. I don't remember his standing fierce kick, I'll check it out later, but I know for certain his standing fierce punch is a good standing poke because he reaches out pretty far. I don't really know about his cross up game, but I am pretty sure his jumping lk is a pretty decent jump with pretty good priority... I really need to check this out again, I'll break out the DC and check tonight. Okay, Reppuken (qcf+p) is the basic fireball poke. It's not anything special, but it helps to add to his distance game. Throwing them out to play keep away, or to use them as a lure to being people in when you want them to come in so you can punish them. But it's basically just a poke like any other fireball. Genocide Cutter (DP+k) is a very, very wierd move. I find it not too reliable. Rugal is one of those people where you actually *have* to use the fierce kick DP because the logistics of the hit are very strange - think of it as a reverse Crack Shoot (Terry's qcb+k). It is strange because the only time he gets a solid hit with it, is when his leg is already in the animation frame for it - the little Cresent slash happens first BEFORE his leg moves, and gives the impression you can hit people with that, and you can't unless the opponent is *right above you*. The thing that's wierd about it is, you can only actually hit the opponent with *half* of the Genocide Cutter - even though the Cresent slash makes a full 360 around his body, once you get past his head, he can't hit you, and if he does, it's only because he did it REALLY deep. So that leaves you with half of the move to really work with, which means you have to hit them out of the air while they are slighty in front of you, rather than a Shoryuken that hits directly above and slighty foward as well. With high jumpers, the lk Genocide Cutter WILL miss them and leave you open to be hit. On his way down from the Genocide Cutter, he is VERY vulnerable which is another drawback. You really have to time the Genocide Cutter well to connect with it consistently, and even then it doesn't have a wonderful priority and can be hit out of sometimes. One of his risky/tricky moves. Note that I never mastered this. God Press (hcb+p). It's okay. You can play it like Terry's Burn Knuckle following up a Reppuken. Hit them with a Reppuken, follow immediately with a God Press. I wouldn't suggest it though, because if they block them you're toast because the recovery time on the God Press is horrible. It is only really good when you catch people out of the air with it, but you have to do it REALLY DEEP. If you know your opponent is going to jump, you can start this and catch them on thier way up, this works best in the corner. Not great though. Otherwise, it's too risky a move to really use. I would advise against trying to use this move too much. Dark Barrier (hcf+k) is one of those moves you use under certain circumstances. Yamazaki's return is MUCH better. But this is Rugal oh well. You should really only use the lk version, unless someone like Sagat is throwing fireballs at you like crazy fast. The lk version has a slighty quicker startup and less lag time, which means it lasts less than the fierce kick version, but oh well, better than being kicked in the head. You need space to do this move, thus, the distance game. With multiple, fast fireballs, you can use the fierce kick version - start it up a little late so that the barrier comes up just at the first fireball reaches you, and it'll last long enough to catch the second one behind it and reflect it. Timing, it's all about timing. Also, it's a low move, so it can actually hit people coming out of a roll if they're rolling in at you. I don't know the priority on it though. It might not be too great. Kaiser Wave (f,hcf+p). His best move. You can do SO much with this. When you hold down the punch button and stall it, not only can you fake people out, but it gets stronger. A fully charged Kaiser Wave hits 3 times. You can time this to catch people jumping at you and take them out of the air to maintain distance, you can time it to punish rollers coming at you, it's so awesome and it knocks people to the ground. Learning to munipulate this move is like, essential to playing an effective Rugal. You can even catch people with extending limbs, like while Yamazaki is in a fierce kick, Balrog is in the fierce punch, etc. This is his best move. Learn to time this well. Gigantic Pressure (qcf,hcb+p). This is not great unless it's at Level 3. You can use it to catch people coming out of the air, much the God Press, but with the invincibility frame of the Level 3 Gigantic Pressure it will catch more consistently when you do it DEEP when they are jumping at you. Genocide Heaven (qcf qcf+k). Oh my god. This move is like, awesome. In contrast to Genocide Cutter, this HAS to be one of the FASTEST Desperation moves. I think it might even be faster than King's Silent Flash (qcb qcb+k). He can do this as soon as the gets up and connect with it, he can do it after a roll and connect with it, it has MAD priority. It LOOKS like he wouldn't connect if someone is sweeping you, because his first hit of it is a large swing down with his leg. Don't be fooled, you'll beat anything just about. I think it might even beat out Balrog's crouching jab, not sure about that though. Also, you can hit people out of the air with it better than Genocide Cutter and you knock them back far enough to get recovery time. The Level 3 Genocide Heaven does some decent damage. Learn to use this too. Wow this move is great. In order to take full advatange of Rugal is to use SNK Groove. Play the distance, knock them down, charge up your meter, play the distance, lure them in/move in, strike hard with a Genocide Heaven or poke in, and then move back out. Abuse the Genocide Heaven when you're in critical life. It is a solid anti-air as well a Desperation. That's all I can give you. I promise I'll break out the DC and test out some of the normal attacks I wasn't sure of later. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 18th, 2001 10:05 PM: ha ha ha you know what ThisGuileKillYa, the more we talk the more I like you ^_^ lol I can't believe someone played Rugal like that too when they first started, I never saw ANYONE use him but me when CvS came out. I used King and Rugal - the "Formal Suit" team ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 18th, 2001 10:11 PM: top notch stuff mummy i have questions though is it true you can link a geno cutter after a level 3 god press super? second how to capitolize on his jumping elbow drop (hp in air i think) and how do i follow up a god press? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Mummy-B on April 18th, 2001 10:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie top notch stuff mummy i have questions though is it true you can link a geno cutter after a level 3 god press super? second how to capitolize on his jumping elbow drop (hp in air i think) and how do i follow up a god press? Hmmm... link a genocide cutter after a level 3 gigantic press... I have never tried it before, but I don't see why not, if you time the juggle right. The way Genocide Cutter hits, like I said is with the upper half portion facing your opponent. Hmmm... The timing on that would be very very hard if you could. I have never tried - I usually back away and get my distance again. With Rugal, it is risky to try to hit things with the Genocide Cutter because it's inconsistency with hits, the lag time it has and vulnerability on the way down, and knowing which one to use on specific characters the lk or fk version. I just Genocide Cutter as least as possible. But then, after a Level 3 Gigantic Press, they can't really do anything anyway, so it never hurts to try. I'll try that out on my DC too. Following up a God Press, well you really can't. The way he hits with it, the same recovery time he has when it's blocked, he has when he pushes them against the wall, it's just that the fall to the ground. The animation of God Press won't really let you follow up with anything. If you have a meter, I usually back away, poke in with a crouching fierce kick then either back off and get my distance, or they will jump at me. In that case, you can try a Genocide Cutter (notice I said "try"), or if you have a meter, Genocide Heaven them out of the air. If you're really confident you can catch them with a God Press deep, you can try, but I don't think the distance after a block crouching fierce kick is adequate to get deep enough to catch. Rugal is very risky to play in close because most of his moves are not very fast and have not too great recovery time. I will always think moving in, knocking down, and backing off is the best approach. Yeah, his fierce punch throw is pretty good too. For some reason it seems to catch really fast, maybe it's just me. It's looks cool too ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Redcoldfire on April 18th, 2001 10:29 PM: hmmmmmm could you guyes help me out with my king game...¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿????????????? THANks IF YOU DO __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Mummy-B on April 18th, 2001 10:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie top notch stuff mummy i have questions though is it true you can link a geno cutter after a level 3 god press super? second how to capitolize on his jumping elbow drop (hp in air i think) and how do i follow up a god press? Oh yeah whoops the elbow drop. Ummm it is actually not that great to be honest. It is slightly slow. I would stick to jumping fierce kick and jumping lk, like ThisGuileKillYa said. That is the best thing I can tell you, because I never even used the "elbow drop". __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 18th, 2001 10:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Redcoldfire hmmmmmm could you guyes help me out with my king game...¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿????????????? THANks IF YOU DO here's a post by James Chen, pretty sure. He is the man. ===================== ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ K i n g juugeki no reijin __________________________________________________ ___________________________ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ [01][16 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Trap Shot |10 hit|, Surprise Rose (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX b,d,db + HK, f,d,df + K) [02][14 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Trap Shot |10 hit|, Level 1 Silent Flash (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX b,d,db + HK, qcb,qcb + LK) [03][14 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. Full screen away. LK Venom Strike, Level 3/MAX Illusion Dance (qcf + LK, qcf,hcb + KK) [04][13 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.HP XX Level 3/MAX Silent Flash (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX qcb,qcb + KK) [05][12 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. j.HK \/ s.LK XX LK Trap Shot |6 hit|, Surprise Rose (Jump HK \/ s.LK XX b,d,db + LK, f,d,df + K) [06][11 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. j.HP \/ c.LK > s.LP XX LK Trap Shot |6 hit|, Level 1 Silent Flash (Jump HP \/ c.LK > s.LP XX b,d,db + LK, qcb,qcb + LK) [ from "SF2Freak's Combo Exhibition" ] [07][10 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. j.HK \/ s.LK XX LK Trap Shot |6 hit|, Level 1 Silent Flash (Jump HK \/ s.LK XX b,d,db + LK, qcb,qcb + LK) [08][07 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.LP XX Surprise Rose (Jump HK \/ s.LP XX f,d,df + K) [09][06 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. HP Throw |2 hit|, Surprise Rose (When close, f + HP, f,d,df + K) [10][06 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ c.HK XX Surprise Rose (Jump HK \/ c.HK XX f,d,df + K) [11][04 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ c.HK XX Level 1 Silent Flash (Jump HK \/ c.HK XX qcb,qcb + LK) [12][04 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Double Strike (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX qcf,qcf + HK) [13][04 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Tornado Kick (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX hcb + HK) [14][03 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Venom Strike (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX qcf + HK) - Once the c.HK sweeps the opponent into the air, quickly go into the Surprise Rose / Silent Flash to juggle; respectively __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 11:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B ha ha ha you know what ThisGuileKillYa, the more we talk the more I like you ^_^ lol I can't believe someone played Rugal like that too when they first started, I never saw ANYONE use him but me when CvS came out. I used King and Rugal - the "Formal Suit" team ^_^ Haha, I'm flattered. You also played Rugal when the game 1st came out? I tried him out in, like, my 2nd game of CvS and when me and my friend J saw his QCB+P move and his DP+K, we were like "This guy is the sht(my work comp censors me!)" Then I found out the HCB+P COMBOED off a cLK,.. cuz some of my friends that play dont play as well as you or I and if you get them in a corner, mind gaming into combos can happen frequently and it looks cool as hell w/ the HCB+P! I too wondered why people didnt like him. OK, effectiveness wise he's not Yamazaki, but he has as much potential to kill as anyone. He is just forced to play some good defense against better play Mummy, who else did you use right from the getgo? I read sht about EX Yuri pretty quick so she became a fast favorite. Blanka is also someone who was on my 1st team. I LOVE Blanka. He can rip anyone apart. I know a bunch of little Blanka tricks lol Iori also intrigued me early. And Shin Sho.. I mean Ryu. I used the suit 'n' tie crew too! No lie __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 18th, 2001 11:17 PM: King is SUCH a good r1. I use EX King, but for sort of a pussy reason. I'm 50% execution on King's bread n Butter, I'm 99% on EX King's. Is that worth the Double Strike and tornado kick? No, probably not.. but can king beat ass w/ a double strike or tornado kick? Yeeup I think I posted some tactics on king here before like how to use her roll and pressuring w/ double strike. I dunno if I mentioned LK tornado kick being a great, safe poke from a certain distance(around sweep range) Does regular King's BDP+K link off a sLK? Cuz I always try to do it off a cLK hence my poor execution. But maybe if I could get better at cLK, LK, BDP+K I can hold back when I do the sLK to help w/ the BDP. But I always feel like the sLK is too slow to link, unless either it's not, or it's a fast ass cancel. Any ideas? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 18th, 2001 11:33 PM: Guile: I actually used honda in a Toronto team tourney paired with my friends ryu. I played point and he just finished off whatever was left, we came in first Posted by GemInite on April 18th, 2001 11:36 PM: I used to play Rugal, but IMO hes not tourney worthy. gets eaten alive. Posted by GemInite on April 18th, 2001 11:37 PM: oh and i think we discussed king on page 4. Side note i cant stand Psx2000 he IMO is cocky, No one else starts a forum to thank the world Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 18th, 2001 11:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa King is SUCH a good r1. I use EX King, but for sort of a pussy reason. I'm 50% execution on King's bread n Butter, I'm 99% on EX King's. Is that worth the Double Strike and tornado kick? No, probably not.. but can king beat ass w/ a double strike or tornado kick? Yeeup I think I posted some tactics on king here before like how to use her roll and pressuring w/ double strike. I dunno if I mentioned LK tornado kick being a great, safe poke from a certain distance(around sweep range) Does regular King's BDP+K link off a sLK? Cuz I always try to do it off a cLK hence my poor execution. But maybe if I could get better at cLK, LK, BDP+K I can hold back when I do the sLK to help w/ the BDP. But I always feel like the sLK is too slow to link, unless either it's not, or it's a fast ass cancel. Any ideas? Yup, it does, (believe it or not), though I'm more used to a standing jab. If it missess, then I just go for a chuck. BTW, GemInfinite, no offense or anything, but I'm not quite sure why you think that's cocky? What's wrong with thanking people? Posted by GemInite on April 19th, 2001 12:01 AM: IMO: He made a forum just to do it, he seems to be over his head thats whay i post here instead of his forum. It's just my opinion. He went crazy when he won the hawaii tourney he literally posted about each individual match Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 12:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Haha, I'm flattered. You also played Rugal when the game 1st came out? I tried him out in, like, my 2nd game of CvS and when me and my friend J saw his QCB+P move and his DP+K, we were like "This guy is the sht(my work comp censors me!)" Then I found out the HCB+P COMBOED off a cLK,.. cuz some of my friends that play dont play as well as you or I and if you get them in a corner, mind gaming into combos can happen frequently and it looks cool as hell w/ the HCB+P! I too wondered why people didnt like him. OK, effectiveness wise he's not Yamazaki, but he has as much potential to kill as anyone. He is just forced to play some good defense against better play Mummy, who else did you use right from the getgo? I read sht about EX Yuri pretty quick so she became a fast favorite. Blanka is also someone who was on my 1st team. I LOVE Blanka. He can rip anyone apart. I know a bunch of little Blanka tricks lol Iori also intrigued me early. And Shin Sho.. I mean Ryu. I used the suit 'n' tie crew too! No lie Ummm. Initially used Blanka, King, and Iori because King was my favorite KOF person, Blanka was my best person in SFZ3, and Iori is just pimp. And also the King and Rugal team. Then they unlocked the secret characters! Morrigan! hehehe __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 12:23 AM: Thats cool. Im glad u guys like this thread as much as I do.. PSX seems knowlegable. I think its funny he reposts Chen's stuff. He does give props, so he's not stealing it and he does give his own strats, so I dont have a problem w/ him. But I do think I'd laugh if somebody started a "Chun LI Strats" thread and in it was "Quoted from ThisGuileKillYa: ... " I want to be instructive on here, but IM always afraid I come off as a know-it-all. I dont really play w/ a lot of high level players, but from 8 yrs playing fighting games, coming across some good players, obsessive practice(ack in the day), and having an equally obsessed brother, I pretty much have a complete theoretical knowlege of SF: WW - Super, CvS, MK1-4, Killer Insticnt, and most of MvC2. So when I post my little "strategy guides," I hope it doesnt look like I'm trying to be James Chen or something.. I just like having people I can share all the tricks Ive mastered w/. So I dont need to thank anyone, cuz ive never PLAYED a tournament other than w/ gatherings of friends LOL But I'd just b happy if someone was like "Hey, i tried that one Chun Li trick. They didnt see it comin'!" or whatever. Man, Im pretty obsessed w/ these fckin games LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 12:25 AM: No kidding Mummy.. I mean, when u get the game and see Rugal in his suit w/ the panther and then see/hear Iori's laugh, how could u not use em? LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 12:29 AM: Ah yeah, whenever I post to help anyone I try to make sure that it is mostly either a)the way I play the character or b)my opinion on the matter from my experience thus far. I try not to make anything sound so concrete, except maybe how EX Rugal and EX Cammy suck. That's pretty solid. And Shin Shoryuken hurts. And you should be able to punch Mamahaha in the face. That's about all that is concrete. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 12:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa No kidding Mummy.. I mean, when u get the game and see Rugal in his suit w/ the panther and then see/hear Iori's laugh, how could u not use em? LOL Actually it was Iori's intro and ending that got me. "Ore wo tomeru ka... Nara shine!" "You get in my way?... Then DIE!" "Sono mama shine!" "With that you die!" he was just so ... awesome. and Rugal, ha "Koko wa shi ni basho da!" "This is the place where you will die!" ... something about me and people saying DIE I don't know... oh wait, it saves me all the trash talk. ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 12:35 AM: LOL I am not making this up... I was making a video to send some of my play to a friend in PA.. I played my bro who was Nak and I was Ryu. I super jump RH-ed at him as he did his bird super. I landed and timed the kick in JUST a way that I kicked the bird and Nak's head at the same time and snuffed the super! And I was somewhat shallow too so the sprite didnt make total contact w/ Nak's head.. meaning it seriously looks like when he supered, I just flying kicked Mamaha-ha-ha out of the super LOL I have it on tape too, so I can watch it over and over if Nak ever psses me off __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 01:24 AM: yo you need to upload that video to Shoryuken.com. I'll bet it'll get more dls than anything else. I'd dl it. In a heartbeat. Take that tape and frame it. What a wonderful piece of footage that must be. Cherish it. ... Now if only I can time a Shun Goku Satsu as Mamahaha is flying past Nakoruru's head... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 01:33 AM: The day I learn how to put VHS footage up on the web(and can afford to do so), you'll be seein' it LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 19th, 2001 02:46 AM: i'll get the videos of my last tourney encoded and i'll send it to you, apparently its bad quality though. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 02:47 AM: Cool, thanx. SO did u try any of that Chun stuff, Geminite? just curious... __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 03:20 AM: Blah ThisGuileKillYa, I used a part of your Rugal thingie to help out mine where it was unclear when I posted it again for a guy asking about Rugal. What is up with Rugal all of a sudden? Geez. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 19th, 2001 03:33 AM: hmm i liked rugal from 96 kof so mummy did you get a chance to try out the geno cut after levl3 press? if not its ok il try it myself thursday. i wish i could provide a service as good as you and guile, but alas im only skilld in ttt ans sfa3 __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 03:33 AM: Heh, cool Mummy. When u say whats uyp w/ Rugal, are u refering to people wanting strats w/ em? I think its because they see all these Nak and Guile threads and they wanna see what some of the cooler looking characters can do LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 19th, 2001 07:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Well, Im flattered uve read all the stuff Ive put up.. You keep saying "we" Are you, like, team France or something? If so, I'd like to see your opinions on mine and Geminite's character rankings. Maybe u know of some cool stuff we dont and vice versa we are about 5-6 top rank CvS players mainly in Paris(but not only). we have traveled in every big cities and won every tournaments.The official team will be build from the tournament on april 12-13.(cf kyllergames.com) if you want to know our opinion about certains characters and tactics for them and against,ask us. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 04:40 PM: Well, rather than specific character strats(for now), I'd rather hear an account of how play in France differs from play here. Maybe in France, Kyo is regarded like Nako or something LOL But serious.. are there any distinct differences between the play u see in Europe and the play u see here? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Orochi Ryan on April 19th, 2001 06:33 PM: Rugal... after hcb+1_2 grab, gcf,gcf+4 // Grab to Level 2 Genocide Super Combo after gcf,hcb+2 combo, gcf,gcf+4 // Grab Super Combo to Genocide Super Combo Try this fun, Before the Super Combo get a strong kick to trip opponent before gcf,4,gcf+3_4_3+4. Rugal or CvS experts should know these by now, works for all combos that have 2xhcb or 2xqcf. __________________ "Tournaments for Michigan at Reppu'ken." Posted by GemInite on April 19th, 2001 06:49 PM: Guile: Imma try those chun li strats tomorrow. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 06:57 PM: Cool, u wont b sorry. Flip kick __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 08:20 PM: Do any of u guys play Dhalsim? I like him and use him now and then, but Im not as confident w/ him as I am w/ other r1's like EX Yuri or EX Vice Today I played against the computer(lvl 8 of course) and won w/ only Dhalsim. This is probably nothing to some of u, but it did give me a chance to re-evaluate some of his strategies and stuff. U guys down to analyze stretch armstrong? PS. Dhalsim should be in porn films __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 19th, 2001 10:26 PM: I started using dhalsim recently, he has no real big combos cept like crouching jab/fierce forget which one XX yoga fire. Back hp for anti air. Long limbs frustrate people Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 10:54 PM: Blah. Dhalsim. I refuse to use him. Like I refuse to use Nakoruru, Guile, and Honda. I just don't like him.-_- __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 11:00 PM: I use everyone LOL In fact, I love using Nak(sorry, Mummy-B) I'll just use anyone I think is effective, even if they do yell "Sonic Boom!" I'm likin 'sim a lot. I like trying to rush from afar. I'ts like a different kinda game w/ sim and I dig that __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 19th, 2001 11:07 PM: Blah well i learn two things in the arcade today. 1) Kyo's jumping d+hp take priority over even King's Silent Flash at level 1. -_- 2) From all the way across the screen, EX Sakura's Hadouken has some strange "stopping" property when it dissapears at the end of the screen that doesn't let Yamazaki return it, it just stops and hits him in the arm. Maybe the guy was mistiming it, but I hit him seven times in a row so I didn't think so. food for thought. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 19th, 2001 11:22 PM: Nice work on the observations. I like Kyo and all, but I find other characters a lot more fun to play. I also never throw too many fireballs at 'zaki unless either: a. I'm ready for it's return b. I think I've timed it so they probably wont return it Obviously circumstance b. is the one that comes up more But I also know my competiton allows for a little more fireballing than top level. So I try not to take advantage of it too much so as to practice my foot game __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 02:06 AM: i REFUSE to use RYO man he BLOWS Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 20th, 2001 02:10 AM: Ryo? Where did that come from? LOL I like Ryo.. he's not gonna beat a good Nak but he's got some great pokes and his air fireball is cool __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 20th, 2001 02:28 AM: ? mummy did u try that rugal stuff yet? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 04:10 AM: i cant stand ryo, IMO hes crap, DAN of SNK Posted by Mummy-B on April 20th, 2001 02:29 PM: Re: ? quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie mummy did u try that rugal stuff yet? Going to the arcade today to test alot of stuff out including Rugal. I am working on my EX Sakura as well... I was kicking some major ass last time with SNK Groove Cammy, EX Yuri, and Morrigan it was insane. I have gotten so I take out Guile single handedly with Cammy alone. It's ridiculous. Going to go work on my EX Yamazaki too... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 20th, 2001 02:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite i cant stand ryo, IMO hes crap, DAN of SNK Yo actually, I thought Ryo sucked too, but he is pretty awesome. There is a guy who uses him at my arcade who knows how to use his fireballs to control the game and time all of his other moves to catch you as you jump over them to roll through them, it's pretty sick. His Level 3 rush super has STUPID priority. Not that I want to use him or nothing. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 20th, 2001 02:39 PM: Thats whats Im saying.. there is some potential in his fireballs and his sweep __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 03:05 PM: IMO Ryo is over powered, hes got some SHITTY combos that do waaaay too much damage. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 20th, 2001 03:23 PM: On that tape I mentioned I made, probably the most brutal beating I administer on the whole tape is w/ Ryo against my bro's Ryu. Nasty stuff Geminite.. lemme know how the Chun Li experiment goes __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 04:12 PM: ALL: Has anyone been able to get more than 8 hit worth of combo using terry? using ONLY level one supers to begin with? e.g. sHO XX lvl 1 Busta Wolf, sHP XX lvl 2 power geyser.? i can never seem to get more than 8 using level 1 to begin. Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 04:14 PM: oh and thats REGULAR terry. the combo i use in the corner is sHP XX lvl 1 busta wolf XX Fierce Rising tackle. Gives me 8 hits. I Cannot combo in lvl 2 power geyser after cuz i assume i have lost all juggle priority Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 04:16 PM: Oh side note someone posted in another forum if it is possible to do akumas air super from ground like his tiger knee motion fireball. Well i kept trying and now i can finally do it, but 2 tiger knee motions must be done to activate the super. Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 04:18 PM: oh and i use the rising tackle in the corner so i dont have to waste another super. It does about the same damage as comboing in a power geyser Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 20th, 2001 04:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite ALL: Has anyone been able to get more than 8 hit worth of combo using terry? using ONLY level one supers to begin with? e.g. sHO XX lvl 1 Busta Wolf, sHP XX lvl 2 power geyser.? i can never seem to get more than 8 using level 1 to begin. The timing is sorta wack, and IMO its really not worth the effort. The combo I use is actually j. roundhouse, s. jab, s. fierce xx lv.3 power geyser, its not as flashy, but it does a TON of damage. Frankly, if you're comboing into a super, you really can't beat s. hp xx lv 3 power geyser. For flash, I usually do a c. short, c. short, c. jab, lv. 3 buster wolf, c. fierce, short power dunk (almost identical to the james chen combo vid). The easiest (and most effective, IMO) corner combo for EX-Terry is the one you listed, only I replace the rising tackle with a roundhouse PD. Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 05:56 PM: i was more interested to see if anyone knows the juggle amount you are allowed with terry. e.g. with akuma you can get 3 hits worth of juggle and finish with super. Posted by jchensor on April 20th, 2001 06:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite i was more interested to see if anyone knows the juggle amount you are allowed with terry. e.g. with akuma you can get 3 hits worth of juggle and finish with super. Check out my FAQ for the game. I've listed ALL the Juggle limits in there, though some of it is missing (EX-Honda's Jab Headbutt Juggle, the Kick ender for Kyo's Three part Rekka-Ken like sequence is also a Juggle, Sakura's Dive kick is a Juggle, and Kim's Air Super is a Juggle). But I should have all of Terry's Juggle limits there. http://www.shoryuken.com/games/cvs/CvS_SG.txt - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by Mummy-B on April 20th, 2001 07:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite oh and thats REGULAR terry. the combo i use in the corner is sHP XX lvl 1 busta wolf XX Fierce Rising tackle. Gives me 8 hits. I Cannot combo in lvl 2 power geyser after cuz i assume i have lost all juggle priority Actually, I find it better this way - close fierce punch (2 hits), Level 2 Buster Wolf (something like 4 or 5), and then Level 1 Power Geyser (1 hit). I'm pretty sure that's just 8 hits on Capcom Groove. However in SNK Groove you do a couple more hits, because you use a Level MAX Buster Wolf instead of a Level 2, which has more hits, and then the Power Geyser. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 20th, 2001 07:42 PM: Okay I was playing around with EX Sakura and I came up with some nifty little Desperation-oriented combos. First of all, I think it was Hoe Muffin or GemInite that said EX Sakura might not have the juggle property was her Shoryuken. That's only half true. While she can't connect with the Shinkuu Hadouken, she *can* with her Midare Zakura (the qcf qcf+k shoryuken desperation). Capcom or SNK Groove: j.HK -> c.lk -> standing lp -> lp Shoryuken -> Level MAX Midare Zakura (This also works well when you cross-up as well) Capcom Groove: j.HK -> c.lk XX Level 1 Haru Ichiban -> Level 2 Midare Zakura In order to connect with the Midare Zakura at the end, you have to have worked your opponent into the corner by the end of Haru Ichiban, which shouldn't be too hard. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 20th, 2001 08:15 PM: does it matter what level the super is to connect the qcf x2 k? and yes it was me who said there is a loss of juggle priority Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 20th, 2001 08:26 PM: I dont really use regular Terry or either Sakura, so unfortunatly, I can't (adequately) comment. BUT... today I played some CvS. Against the computer, unfortunatly, but when there's no one around, lvl 8 is at least fun. But lemme tell u guys what happened. I dunno if any of u have seen it, but I posted some shit askin the SRK boys about old school SF and it's top tiers. Of course 90% of the SF playing public thought Zangief and Dhalsim sucked, but they in actuality owned the game w/ Guile. So I was thinkin about the bigger characters and how advanced strategy apply to them and CvS.. See, I think in any fighting game, the worth of a character has to be based upon the concept of perfect play. Never an executional mistake, exactly the right poke at the right time, etc... So I asked myself, "Given this concept of perfect play.. could Zangief and/or Raiden perhaps.. own?" and I played some of my new Raiden Zangief team. Some thoughts.. Zangief seems to gave a decent poking game w/ cHP, cLP, and cHK. I wish my 360 accuracy was better. But didnt JChen say on an old post that his LK SPD actually had more range and was easiest to connect? I wanted to connect an SPD after a tick, but this isnt all that easy(for me, at least). I saw in a post JChen said the kick Lariat beats most standing or crouching pokes. I of course, couldnt test this too much, but on the whole, the move seems nearly abusable.. just need smart abuse. It didnt work too well as RELIABLE anti air, so im not too sure the best way to handle a jumper when not in lvl 3(1 and 2 have ok priority, but Id rather bet on the sure thing) I think if I keep him as my last char(so he has lvl 3... they cant jump at you) and play a patient foot game and get MUCH BETTER w/ my 360's, i think Zangief can be a monster. I think I'd have to raise him on my ranking to be above Ryo and Kyo Raiden has some pretty quick pokes for a big guy. His sHP doesnt have great range, but that bitch is fast. Also, I dunno how this ever escaped me but.. his green mist is fast when u do it w/ LP! Not like Yamazaki HK fast, but pretty quick considering it's lag. sLK is a great "I wish I was Kim" poke. His cLP is pretty slow but OK when u can get it in. cHK is about as good as 'gief's I had some difficulty w/ Raiden's K SPD.. but I was pretty off on those today. I did, though, land a few in certain situations that let me think there might be hope. Raiden's biggest weakness seems to be antiair. He can roll when they jump, but I'd rather swat em if I can. but I think Raiden's ground game is weak compared to, say, EX Terry's.. but it's usable and w/ good play, I dont see why his punches that HURT and SPDs shouldnt lead to good play. I now rank Raiden under Ryo, tied w/ Kyo Anyone have any analysis they wanna share? __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 20th, 2001 10:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite does it matter what level the super is to connect the qcf x2 k? and yes it was me who said there is a loss of juggle priority Yeah actually, you can't juggle with a level 1 Midare Zakura, and you can't juggle with any level Shinkuu Hadouken. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 21st, 2001 02:33 AM: Actually, IMO grapplers are the WORST characters in "perfect" play, since all ticking is is tricking your opponent, and in perfect play, that wouldn't happen. Of course, in perfect play, every match would be a draw ... Stuff about 'Gief: I pretty much use 'Gief's standing/crouching fierces as zoning/poke devices, they hurt like hell and they've got awesome range (except against she bitch Nak, who will beat you with her standing fierce. *sob*). Trading hits almost ALWAYS works in Gief's favor. Especially if you've got 3 levels of super lying around. The kick lariat has to be done late, sorta like PD (only much, much easier), that way, barring them whipping out some super, you're going to either flat out win, or trade. And trading always benefits 'Gief. Then again, jumping in on 'Gief is just suicide anyways. You jump in with a short, he can take the hit, then SPD you. If you do a deep short, you're either eating a lariat already, or he'll block then SPD you. If he's got a lv. 2 or greater super, kiss your ass goodbye. You can't play footsie with 'Gief (unless you have some SERIOUS chutzpah), one mistake and it's roll into FAB. Or you'll eat a fierce to the noggin, which hurts like hell. Or you'll get jabbed a couple of times, then ticked into a SBG (Siberian Bear Grab). Oh yeah, and if you know a 'Gief player who can do standing 360's, life sucks a LOT more in the footsie/poke department. And rolling (obviously) is not good. Zoning IS good though, which is why I hate playing Gief vs. Yamazaki. The lk SBG is a GREAT ticking move, since it makes Zangief a threat even at the tip of his jab, since unless your opponent has godly reflexes (I.e. the computer SPD'ing YOU), that's basically a free throw. Raiden, I don't respect as much. I agree with James, you can jump in on Raiden all day, using your fierce/roundhouse jumpins deep to keep him from SPD'ing you. He really can't do much about it, except for the Lv. 3 flame super. I find it MUCH harder to tick with him, and maybe its just me, but his SPD seems to have less range then 'Gief. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 21st, 2001 02:49 AM: I didnt neccessarily mean I was auuming perfect play by both players.. I was just saying that to rate a character's effectiveness, you need to assume perfect play w/ HIM or HER Man, I need to work on my 360's __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 04:37 AM: side note raiden has invincible frames. He is invincible when he ducks down right before his charge. dash supers e.g. guile, honda wont hit him. Posted by frenchteam on April 21st, 2001 01:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Well, rather than specific character strats(for now), I'd rather hear an account of how play in France differs from play here. Maybe in France, Kyo is regarded like Nako or something LOL But serious.. are there any distinct differences between the play u see in Europe and the play u see here? our style (i am talking about good players of course) is really more thought than yours.every jump , every move is made with a maximum security:i think mistakes are very rare in our matches. be careful of Kyo!! Have you ever noticed (like Nakoruru) that Kyo ,after completing his combo in the corner his early vertical jump cross you over and one more combo in your face.this is really confusing like many others of his feints.(that we will keep for the moment...) you may have known this for a moment or may be not.but by knowing all his feint Kyo is a good character . remember our way of thinking is to master every character because if your opponent ignores one character so even if he is better than you, you will defeat him. i hope you have understood what i mean. ciao. Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 02:39 PM: Top notch players here NEVER ignore the ability of another player no matter who he uses. Unless its ex cammy then i literally laugh. Guile: I had bad day yesterday was getting slaughtered by everyone. I played EX-King, SIm, Chun and only managed like 2 wins. Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 02:40 PM: oh and i saw some guy doing a chun combo yesterday it was like jumping short crouching jab, crouching jab, her ummm d, u kick thinge. Can anyone confirm this combo im to lazy to go downstairs and try Posted by shadowcharlie on April 21st, 2001 03:09 PM: i kindah miss the invincible frames that sagat had with his scar charge on sfa3, mummy any luck with the combo? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 21st, 2001 03:28 PM: So then the french play a cautious game... that's smart, really. I guess sometimes I throw caution to the wind when I attack, but I usualy find ways to attack fast, but safely. Thats one reason I like Chun.. I can throw her at you and still block anything I never said Kyo was bad. I rank him low for r2's, yes.. but everyone in CvS is somewhat good(even EX cammy still has a good crossup heh) Geminite.. Hmm.. I hope you dont think chun is a bad character as a result o yesterday LOL jLK into 2 crouching jabs? Never did that link. Personally, I didnt think it was possible, but I'm no Chen when it comes to linking. I'll try it tho __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 03:51 PM: Guile: yesterday just happen to be a bad day for me. I know chun has a combo where its is jLK into crouching something, something, then her air kick thinge. I'll go try it out now Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 04:05 PM: ALL: Here is the correct combo with chun-li jFierce, cJab, CShort XX Air Kick total of 6 hits **Air kick will miss small characters e.g. yuri If someone already posted this combo then imma feel like an ass Posted by Mummy-B on April 21st, 2001 05:38 PM: Okay yeah the past two days at the arcade I have been kicking some ass, I might have had something to do with the fact i was in a good mood all day, so I must have been having good days. First day, my Charlie's Angels Team (Cammy, EX Yuri, Morrigan). Oh my god. I stayed for an hour and half I got like 20 wins. I don't know how. My EX Yuri was ridiculously screwing people. Her f,b,f,qcb+kick desperation is so fast that it even beats out Gouki's Shoryuken Desperation! Many people didn't even get to see Morrigan. Yay ^_^ Next day somebody put the Ratio2 code on -_- It wsa the first time I ever used Ryu on SNK Groove... Successfully. EX Yamazaki and Ryu were like death. I didn't know that someone could block a Guillotine and you could do another one before they can hit you with anything else ^_^ anyway, thoughts for the day. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 21st, 2001 05:40 PM: mummy RUGAL!!!!!!!!!? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on April 21st, 2001 06:25 PM: I think i'll play ex-yuri, ex-king, Terry today. Posted by Mummy-B on April 21st, 2001 06:28 PM: Re: mummy quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie RUGAL!!!!!!!!!? lol okay my bad... After a level 3 Gigantic Pressure, I don't believe it's possible to connect a Genocide Cutter, or at least I couldn't do it. Rugal jumps backward after he carries the character and cennects with the wall. So I believe either a) that distance he gets when he hops back doesn't allow a connection, b)there is no more juggle priority left, or c)I just timed it wrong every single time, which is a possiblity. I am more convinced that it is either (a) or (b), simply because I tried like fifty times and I would think after screwing up that many times I'd get it right at least once. -_- __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 21st, 2001 06:31 PM: I think he also has the same hop back from a Level 1, but maybe on SNK Groove you can catch them with a Genocide Heaven afterward if you time it right, because Rugal's inital downswipe has some pretty good range, but I don't know if it would have to be a particular level. Based on my knowledge, I think in order to do that, it would have to be on Capcom Groove, and you'd have to Level 1 Gigantic Pressure, Level 2 Genocide Heaven. But I don't really even know if that's worth it because you won't nearly any of the hits or damage than if you just did either one at Level 3 and caught them with it. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 21st, 2001 06:39 PM: yeah the genoside heven thig work for sure and yes the damage sucks i just wanted to know *sigh( thanks a lot man maybe a standing hk then*thinks* thanks for all the help again.*) __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Mummy-B on April 21st, 2001 06:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie yeah the genoside heven thig work for sure and yes the damage sucks i just wanted to know *sigh( thanks a lot man maybe a standing hk then*thinks* thanks for all the help again.*) No problem. Sorry I kept forgetting to tell you lol I'm sorry! ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 21st, 2001 07:36 PM: its all gravey dont worry you do sommuch running around helping peeps here __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Dragon Boxer on April 21st, 2001 11:59 PM: im not to good sorting out all the terms and details of strategy, but here is mine. using ryu or evil ryu i mostly start of jumping forward in the air, throwing out a high kick (diagnol driving high kick with evil ryu) from there i will either jump back or move in agressivly, jumping over my opponent landing next to them i throw out any hit then follow it with two crouch hits (sometimes shorter) performing that roll thing to move to the other side sending two crouching blows, a punch, then moving back. my average strat is jumping in the air, a kick or punch to the head, then two crouching kicks or punches (which ever flows best against the enemy char). after doing stuff like that i help my self to some specials or maybe a super. what i need help on is that i prefer to have the combos on max and when ever up against geese or that other guy (forgot the name, he always has one hand in his pocket), they abuse me with supers. i wanna know some moves on how to whipe the floor with them without getting caught in the same damn specials 100 times __________________ You keep runnin ya mouth, then ya run into my fist Posted by Stuc2K on April 22nd, 2001 12:19 AM: I saw a video on this site in which a guy had Morrigan. Did a sweep then followed with the uppercut super, then did the uppercut super AGAIN. Can someone tell me the secret behind this one? I can't link it for anything in the world.... __________________ "My authority is absolute and I will not tolerate questioning!"- M.Bison to Sagat Posted by VruS on April 22nd, 2001 01:37 AM: uh... do super xx super. make it both level 1. pretty straight forward there. (hello I'm back) Posted by Mummy-B on April 22nd, 2001 01:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Stuc2K I saw a video on this site in which a guy had Morrigan. Did a sweep then followed with the uppercut super, then did the uppercut super AGAIN. Can someone tell me the secret behind this one? I can't link it for anything in the world.... Morrigan is my specialty. Okay, what you saw was her offensive crouching fierce kick (df+fk). What you have to do is buffer the Cardinal Blade into it. Once you execute the kick, the joystick movement, NOT the hit itself, you have to quickly do qcf qcf+p. Note that the only way you can connect the with the Cardinal Blade is if you do it at Level 3 or Level MAX in SNK Groove. Once you connect with it, you still have juggle priority going, because off of the Level MAX Cardinal Blade you can hit them for a total number of something like 9 hits. So after you hit with the Level MAX you'll only connect with something around 7 hits. Since you're still in critical life, once Morrigan touches the ground, immediately do another Cardinal Blade to connect for the remaining 2 hits of the combo. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by VruS on April 22nd, 2001 01:43 AM: to dragon boxer: jumpign around geese and yamazaki is a bad idea. I say ditch your old strategy and follow mine =]. First since you use ryu I say use simpple mentality (thats a word right?). Round starts 1.jump back 2.if follow get in range and jab shoryuken. If not slow fireball. 3. follow slow fireball. if they roll you throw. if they jump over the fireball get in mid range or you can dry and shoryuken. 4. it's pretty much up to you here. They could screw up a move you just roll and throw. wait to see what they do. Punish with shoryuken on their jumps and throw when they roll. Roll when they miss. Pretty basic there. The rest is up to you Posted by Mummy-B on April 22nd, 2001 02:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dragon Boxer what i need help on is that i prefer to have the combos on max and when ever up against geese or that other guy (forgot the name, he always has one hand in his pocket), they abuse me with supers. i wanna know some moves on how to whipe the floor with them without getting caught in the same damn specials 100 times Okay, first of all, you need to kind of adjust your strategy for Geese and Yamazaki (the guy with the hand in his pocket). Geese is *not* that hard to kill with a Shoto. As a matter of fact, he's not that hard to kill with anyone, as far as I am concerned. The only real things you have to watch out for is the Raging Storm and his crouching fierce kick. More than likely he doesn't let you in very close, and that probably makes you jump at him, and he probably hits you with Raging Storm for it. The best thing you can do with this is play a very, very good ground game. Before he has the ability to Raging Storm you, attack the hell out of him - Geese has relatively slow moves and Ryu (both versions) has normal moves that simply totally out prioritize Geese's (like jumping lk, that just about out pritoritizes everything). Once he has the ability to Raging Storm, annoy the piss out of him: Play his own game. Poke at him from afar with fireballs and keep your distance. You have to make him come to you. If put Geese under pressure and force him to play in close, he will lose to Ryu. Yamazaki is a different story. First of all, I consider his most lethal weapon his standing and crouching fierce kick. A good Yamazaki player is really hard to take care of. I can't really say much about this, except know that his standing and crouching fierce kicks have MAD range and CAN hit you so fast that it can stop you from even going through the whole Hadouken animation - he can kick you in the middle of it before you release the actual fireball. Also, his Level 1 Guillotine can be repeated after you block it once and catch you before you can low kick him. A Shoryuken outprioritizes the Level 1 Guillotine. It will also outprioritze the Level 1 Drill. If he does them at Level 3... well if you try to counter the Guillotine, just hope you have about half of your life bar left. If he does Drill at level 3, just jump, you can escape it that way. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Stuc2K on April 22nd, 2001 02:03 AM: :/ Vrus what I meant was I can't link the Cardinal blade from the crouching kick not the super from the super...thats pretty easy. Gimme a little credit for havin common sense dude lol....anyway I didn't know you could only do it at level 3. Thanks. __________________ "My authority is absolute and I will not tolerate questioning!"- M.Bison to Sagat Posted by VruS on April 22nd, 2001 02:56 AM: hehe mummy thats not true. You can juggle a level 1 level 2 or level 3 cardinal from her crouch. Check the multimedia files I think it was scott vs valle. Morrigan does something like clp clp clk chk xx cardinal lvl1 xx cardinal lvl1. heh I didn't mean to try to offend you stuck =] Posted by Stuc2K on April 22nd, 2001 03:12 AM: likewise....i was just playin around. Sorry if i sounded hostile at all __________________ "My authority is absolute and I will not tolerate questioning!"- M.Bison to Sagat Posted by Mummy-B on April 22nd, 2001 03:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by VruS hehe mummy thats not true. You can juggle a level 1 level 2 or level 3 cardinal from her crouch. Check the multimedia files I think it was scott vs valle. Morrigan does something like clp clp clk chk xx cardinal lvl1 xx cardinal lvl1. heh I didn't mean to try to offend you stuck =] I think it depends on the distance it and position though. The deeper the kick, and also nearer to the egde of the screen. And even then, it wouldn't nearly get more than three hits off of the fierce kick on a Level 1, then the nxt Cardinal Blade would only hit for 2 or 3 and you still have one juggle left.... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 22nd, 2001 03:54 AM: ya went to the arcade tonight and played some benzamaru and king need help handeling a crack shot happy terry with king/?anyone. __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Mummy-B on April 22nd, 2001 04:04 AM: Re: ya quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie went to the arcade tonight and played some benzamaru and king need help handeling a crack shot happy terry with king/?anyone. BLOCK! lol ^_^ .... but no really, you could do that and respond to it. If he does the lk crack shot he has time to do a crouching fierce afterward so keep that in mind. Crack Shots don't like fireballs either. I think her backwards-DP+k move will trade with it. But you can always roll - if he always Rising Tackles or crouching fk, then roll and come right out with a Surprise Rose. I really can't think of anything else, someone else with more King knowledge please? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 22nd, 2001 04:25 AM: Re: ya quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie went to the arcade tonight and played some benzamaru and king need help handeling a crack shot happy terry with king/?anyone. roll under trip XX super or surprise rose. Posted by Hero on April 22nd, 2001 04:42 AM: I just got some ASCII FT Pads last week, and it's on now! I was messing with morri today and finally figured the timing for her qcfx2+p juggled into another. Plus I played more with Ryo. Is there anyone who has good Ryo or EX Ryo strats (I dunno if I asked this already, sorry if I did)? __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 22nd, 2001 05:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie went to the arcade tonight and played some benzamaru and king need help handeling a crack shot happy terry with king/?anyone. LOL Mummy-B.. we think a like. Honestly, even tho he was kidding, the 1st thing that came to my mind was "BLOCK" -If they are doing it as anti-air, stop jumping -If they are doing it as a poke from in close, then combo them as they recover -If they are doing it as a poke from far(so ir barely hits), then block.. but know that crackshoot has more recovery time than Power Dunk. Not to say u now have time to sweep them or even combo them(that might depend how fast ur and ur oppoent's reflexes are), but you might be able to dash back, jump away, or if you're feeling balls-y.. roll -If they do it as a combo ender, then try to avoid the combo starter Are u getting Crackshoot-ed(that sounds illegal) in a situation I didnt mention? As for Ryo and EX Ryo.. I dont much like EX Ryo.. his mobility, or lack thereof, gets to me. Regular Ryo, IMO, makes up for it w/ his fireballs. Just use the air one w/ the ground one to control space. If u know they're getting ancy, jump to them w/ a fireball.. you'd be sureprised how often I nail a jumper, as opposed to someone on the ground w/ this fireball... even when jumping back Sweep isnt bad, but calculate it's lag for safety. People talk shit(mad shit) about Ryo's jumps, but honestly, as long as I know Im not gonna be anti-aired, I love how his jump ins feel. My combo execution is top notch w/ Ryo for some reason.. even tho I really only pull little 3 hitters like jHK (cLK or cHP) xx (Fireball or DP) He has some OK pokes(that sweep).. I need to remember if he has a good ranged standing HK.. I honestly dont remember. Geminite.. I'll have to try that Chun Combo. I actually dont even combo too much w/ her. Im all over the place too much. The combo I actually do most is Flip Kick xx D, U+K. Man Chun is the shit __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 22nd, 2001 06:17 PM: Guile: The combo i listed seems to work well because the jumping fierce is such a deep attack. Recentlly my EX-King seems to be giving people the most problems. I just gotta work on ex-yuri now. Posted by GemInite on April 22nd, 2001 06:19 PM: Oh side note has anyone experienced this before, where you learn new characters then when you try to go back to your old ones you're no longer good? I swear when i started learning terry it has REALLY messed up my guile game. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 22nd, 2001 06:58 PM: Haha Geminite.. never really experienced that, honestly. I have a little from game to game (MvC2 - A3 - CvS, etc) Man I hate when my assists dont come out in CvS! I personally like Mai's Anti-Bra attack Annnnyway... __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 22nd, 2001 07:14 PM: My guile is horrible these days and i blame it all on terry and king. I havent played guile for a good month and now hes awful. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 22nd, 2001 07:30 PM: Guile is one char. in CvS I dont think I play as well as he has the potential to be played. I have a damn good Guile, to be sure.. but I cant get on the great lockdown/pressure I hear so much about. Well, I can.. but I cant keep it as constant as I'd like w/ sobats and such. I play Guile more to try and land his cLP cLP cLP Flashkick combo. Does Guile's cLP link into the cHP? That could be nasty! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 22nd, 2001 07:34 PM: And if not.. perhaps EX Guile does have some worth LOL Thats assuming if his cLP DOESNT link to his cFP, it damn sure better link into his crouching strong. Im not sure if that's enough to give up the Sobat over though __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Dragon Boxer on April 22nd, 2001 08:32 PM: thanks mummy-b and vrus. finally i can evolve my useless strategy. if ya'll need help on anything im feel free to let me know __________________ You keep runnin ya mouth, then ya run into my fist Posted by shadowcharlie on April 22nd, 2001 09:52 PM: thanks alot guile mummy and all others. __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on April 22nd, 2001 09:57 PM: Guile: EX guile's cLP does connect to his crouching strong and technically cLP can connect into sHP for regular guile. While doing the FLashkick motion if you hit fierce when it is in nutural followed right with up K it'll connect. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 22nd, 2001 10:34 PM: No prob, ShadowCharlie. I like to help when I can So, Geminite, the cLP does NOT connect to a cHP? Oh well.. maybe it's time to give EX Guile another try.. but then again, maybe it's not __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by VruS on April 22nd, 2001 11:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Oh side note has anyone experienced this before, where you learn new characters then when you try to go back to your old ones you're no longer good? I swear when i started learning terry it has REALLY messed up my guile game. Yes. When I started learning ratio 1 teams, my ratio 2's were all fucked up. I did 3 man teams and my ratio 3's were fucked up. I went to ratio 3 and well damn you know what happened. I just remain at ratio 2's only now =]. Good bye ex-bison. I didn't know you play ex king gem. I was just trying her out a few days ago. I say she's better since she got an anti-air. Posted by Monkey on April 22nd, 2001 11:42 PM: This doesnt happen that often, but what are some good ways to break people out of their rolls? Most of the people that I play are good, and know not to use them 24/7. There are a couple that roll into me, and try to throw. Now that I know how they play, its not a problem, but the first game got me feeling threatened. Also, why is jumping in so dangerous in this game. Everytime I try to jump in, someone is there with a Shoryuken, or some kind of attack that hits me out of the j.short. I know not to ever jump in to a good Nakoruru, I had to find that out the hard way ^_^. -Monkey Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 22nd, 2001 11:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey This doesnt happen that often, but what are some good ways to break people out of their rolls? Most of the people that I play are good, and know not to use them 24/7. There are a couple that roll into me, and try to throw. Now that I know how they play, its not a problem, but the first game got me feeling threatened. Also, why is jumping in so dangerous in this game. Everytime I try to jump in, someone is there with a Shoryuken, or some kind of attack that hits me out of the j.short. I know not to ever jump in to a good Nakoruru, I had to find that out the hard way ^_^. -Monkey Breaking people out of their rolls? Throwing them is the obvious response (Time to use that damned Iori special throw. WoohoO!), but for some people, (Terry) throwing them out of a throw is a total, total bitch. You're better off mashing the jabs, or alternatively, if you've got a good fierce (iori), use that. Obviously, if you're against somebody like Terry/EX Terry, don't do that, cause more often then not, you're either going to eat rising tackle/power dunk (unless they decide to try to throw you). Jumping is dangerous cause crossups are so powerful. Hell, regular jump-ins are almost as powerful. They set up the most damaging combos in the game, they force you to block high, and they provide basically a huge amount of screen coverage for all characters. Hence the need for high-priority anti-air specials, to stop people from jumping in for free. This is why characters like Raiden has it tough, when people jump for free at you, you're going to be eating many, many painful combos, unless your blocking is godly. Even if it IS, you can be set up for a throw. Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 12:03 AM: Vrus: I abuse kings cheap chip combos, and i LOVE her throw XX Level 2 or 3 double strike. I use Crouching fierce as anti air which regular king also has Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 12:04 AM: Guile: I have been able to connect the Standing HP xx Flash kick after 1 crouching jab. Its basically doing a standing blade kick right after a crouching jab. i alws use the standing fierce XX flash kick when i know it'll connect e.g. missed DP Posted by Monkey on April 23rd, 2001 12:11 AM: Thanks for your help Hoe. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 12:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey This doesnt happen that often, but what are some good ways to break people out of their rolls? Most of the people that I play are good, and know not to use them 24/7. There are a couple that roll into me, and try to throw. Now that I know how they play, its not a problem, but the first game got me feeling threatened. Also, why is jumping in so dangerous in this game. Everytime I try to jump in, someone is there with a Shoryuken, or some kind of attack that hits me out of the j.short. I know not to ever jump in to a good Nakoruru, I had to find that out the hard way ^_^. -Monkey When I see someone roll, I consider the situation and decide what to do.. sometimes I wont even attack if I thik it'll get in their head. Nothing confuses rollers more than when you roll thru their roll.. and nothing pisses em off more when EX Terry's Sweep comes right after it Mainly tho I counter w/ crouching light kicks When u say jump ins are dangerous, do you mean to the jump-ER or the jump-EE? I thought u were saying for the guy jumping, but HoeMuffin seemed to think you meant for the guy defending. Honestly, jumping is dangerous for both. From the get go, jumping isnt that good because anti airs are too easy and too quick. But if your foot game is good enough and you can trick them into jumping(and then anti-aired) they get frustrated. And then its easier to trick them into getting swept(which then makes them wanna jump again heh). And when you get them swept, THEN jump ins get real dangerous for the meatball getting up. Just crossup and go from there.. combo, tick, jab jab crossup... The possibilities are endless(and I detailed a lot of the options w/ the diff char.'s in this thread) And another cool thing about that is when u get that kinda pressure on, they get flustered. And when they're flustered, they are not as alert w/ anti-airs. So re-crossup. W/ Nak u can crossup, jab, crossup, jab.. just that sequence there is material for enough mind games to run the round So I dont know who you were saying jump ins were dangerous for, but I can argue for both sides. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by shadowcharlie on April 23rd, 2001 12:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Vrus: I abuse kings cheap chip combos, and i LOVE her throw XX Level 2 or 3 double strike. I use Crouching fierce as anti air which regular king also has can u elaborate or break that down a bit? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 12:30 AM: Shadow. crouching short or jab X 2 or 3 XX qcb k gives you at least 7 hits. When in corner add in DP kick at the end for 2 extra hits. Crouching Fierce or Roundhouse XX DP-K. I usually just cross up and start throwing mad jabs, If one connects then i start the combo Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 12:31 AM: Shadow: Her jumping short also has really good priority so once they in corner and i get the combo in, i always following jumping short XX crouching short XX Combo. THe only way they can get out of the corner is by rolling. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 12:37 AM: I like EX King too! Also when u have someone in the corner, jump in LK and.. throw! Then juggle w/ DP+K, then jump in again. cLK hit? combo! juggle DP+K blocked? throw again! juggle DP+K Geminite. I had no idea her DP+K juggled after a cHK. That's REALLY cool, tho u have to KNOW you're sweep is gonna connect. Could b useful for a cLK cLK cHK combo EX King's QCB+K move is so cool. I really miss some of regular King's moves tho __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by VruS on April 23rd, 2001 12:51 AM: yeah I found out you can aa special after sweep, but I don't use it much as I can't xx fast enough =[. I gotta try that throw xx double strike. I heard you can combo ending with qcb+k into double strike (forgot which levl) I gotta try that out too. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 12:58 AM: Wow, that makes me re-eval my King is better than EX King statement(even tho I use EX King).. I still think she is.. I just think EX King is much easier to use I wanna try those cancels as well! Also guys.. Im gonna do some EX vega experimentation tonight.. Wish me luck, cuz I know it's a suicide mission __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by WMoose on April 23rd, 2001 02:06 AM: Ok I just started playing CvS like a week ago and read this whole thread. Talk about a information overload. One quick question is the ShinShoryuken combo started with Short or Forward(back and roundhouse)? Thanks. Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 02:11 AM: WMoose: works with either one Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 02:13 AM: EX-King's throw into double strike only works with level 2 or 3. does NOT work when in corner, just juggle in DP+K. and member Crouching Fierce XX DP+K. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 03:22 AM: WMoose.. glad the thread has been a help to you You can ShinSHo off any of those moves. Also, crouch Roundhouse can cancel into it! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 04:30 AM: Just a couple of random things about characters and stuff like that: My 2 favorite ways of connecting the Shin shoryuken are c. short, c. jab xx shin shoryuken, I dunno why, but I just find this the most comfortable way for me to do it. I like regular King better, since I absolutely love her double strike (good chipping), and of course her trap shot super. I've practiced like a bitch to get her damn trapshot combo down, so now that I'm really consistent with that, it works well for me. Sweep xx Suprise rose is an awesome combo, and of course throw into suprise rose/Trap Shot super in the corner is just wrong. Good stuff. Posted by Mummy-B on April 23rd, 2001 05:38 AM: I personally like either- A)sweep (oc fierce kick) XX Shin Shoryuken B)from the corner, j.fk, c.lk, lp Shoryuken, Shin Shoryuken the second one just looks so cool. in training mode I put the meter to MAX and I did a Level 3 Shinkuu Hadouken and then a Shin Shoryuken, that was pretty messed up. It actually made me flinch watching it, it looked so damn painful. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Vrus: I abuse kings cheap chip combos, and i LOVE her throw XX Level 2 or 3 double strike. I use Crouching fierce as anti air which regular king also has note:King's standing HK is very often a better anti air than her D+HP . Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 06:44 AM: True, but the D+HP tends to be better (IMO) against cross-ups, since the roundhouse has some start up time and it's hit box is sorta strange. Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:53 AM: i think we do not play King the same way. to avoid cross up,her roll is safer and you are able to keep the distance again. Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 06:58 AM: Yeah, that wouldn't suprise me. Don't get me wrong, I do roll, especially against moves I KNOW I can't beat out (Kyo's d+Fierce, for example). I generally prefer not rolling since it has a tendency to reset the match momentum (unless I know I can sweep them after they land). My king is very, very agressive with pokes and chipping traps, so most of the time when they DO jump, I expect it. Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 07:05 AM: that would be quite funny to see an aggressive King. i do not understand what you mean by pokes (or I perfectly see ,which wouldn't surprise me). can you be a little more precise? Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 07:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by frenchteam that would be quite funny to see an aggressive King. i do not understand what you mean by pokes (or I perfectly see ,which wouldn't surprise me). can you be a little more precise? Tired right now, but I'm going to hope that things are still coherent: King's got excellent close pokes (c. short, c. jab) and an excellent sweep, awesome for punishing wiffed everythings. As you know though, the range is a bit on the crummy side. I tend to cross up every now and then with her (though not as much as Benimaru), and I throw out a LOT of c. short, c. jab, c. short chains, followed by other things: 1) If it connects: Trapshot. If the sweep connects, xx suprise rose. 2) If it is blocked: throw out a roundhouse, sometimes a 2x strike, sometimes a single venom strike. If I think I'm getting pushed out far, tornado kick. Alternatively, I can tick. My king is similar to MrWizard's (check the multimedia files) and Valles, though I doubt mine is anywhere NEAR as good. I can add more tommorow (hopefully). Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 03:37 PM: Yeah i like EX-KIng cuz of her cheap combos. as long as one cJab or cShort connects you are guaranted a 6hit combo with qcb+k to finish. I actually play an agressive king when playing opponents w ho i feel havve a low priority or no anti air attack. Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 03:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin My king is similar to MrWizard's (check the multimedia files) and Valles, though I doubt mine is anywhere NEAR as good. I can add more tommorow (hopefully). IMO they really roll too much and can't wait , they make many mistakes. Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 03:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Yeah i like EX-KIng cuz of her cheap combos. as long as one cJab or cShort connects you are guaranted a 6hit combo with qcb+k to finish. I actually play an agressive king when playing opponents w ho i feel havve a low priority or no anti air attack. apart from Beni , i can't see any character with no anti air... Posted by Mister Fixer on April 23rd, 2001 04:49 PM: Roll + Ultimate Final Atomic Buster... That's all. It's as advanced as I get. __________________ "This boy is dead. He's completely dead in a Taro-kun manner!" Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 05:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by frenchteam IMO they really roll too much and can't wait , they make many mistakes. *shrug* mistakes are a part of the game. THat's the whole POINT with playing an offensive pressure game, you don't wait. Offensive TURTLING (there IS a japanese term for it, the name I cannot remember right now) does involve waiting around. Remember throwing out jabs doesn't mean you're not waiting. King has a good roll, so that's not a big deal either. King has a rough time being defensive cause she has NO good mid-range pokes other then the tornado kick, and even then, it's easy to jab her out of it. And Beni DOES have an anti-air, two in fact: his manual aerial shoryuken, and his lv. 3 diagonal ball o' lightning. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 05:44 PM: Hoe, the word you're looking for I think is "machi" style I too think of King(or at least EX King) as a very offensive fighter From what im hearing, im gonna guess the french players are very strong, for the sole reason that they sound very PATIENT. But me, Im more aggressive. I love using King's jumping LK's to start head games and trap people in the corner __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 05:47 PM: Frenchteam has seen this, but in another thread, i re-wrote my CvS rankings based on new observations and such. Please feel free to be open w/ ur agrements and disagreements. im posting this to discuss, not to claim all-knowing-ness r1: 1. Dhalsim/EX Vice(tie) 2. King/Blanka(tie) 3. EX Yuri/Cammy(tie) 4. EX Beni 5. EX Sakura (All the r1's are roughly equal, though) r2: 1. Nakoruru 2. Guile 3. Chun Li/EX Honda (tie) 4. Ryu/Ken/EX Terry (tie) 5. EX Kim/SNK EX Mai (tie) 7. EX Balrog / Morrigan (tie) 8. Zangief / SNK Iori 9. Ryo/Kyo(I feel regular and EX are even) (tie) 10. Raiden R3: 1. Yamazaki(I feel his regular and EX are even) 2. SNK EX Sagat 3. EX Bison 4. EX Vega 5. Rugal/EX Geese (tie) r4: 1. Akuma 2. Evil Ryu 3. Blood Iori __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 06:02 PM: Guile: Gawd damn it what did i say about EX-Honda, havent you been paying any attention? Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 06:04 PM: French: When i say no threatning anti air, as in sometimes i will go in for a jLK with King or even trade hits. Characters like Mai, Chun, terry, raiden, sakura, blanka. I will jump at them, but usually i only jump on meaty where its hard for them to react Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 06:13 PM: Haha, Geminite.. actually, I DID change my mind.. but in order to get that all written, I copy/pasted my original rank and completely forgot about that.. OFFICIAL CHANGE: EX HONDA HAS BEEN REPLACED BY HONDA __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:17 PM: Guile: first at all , you say you love using King's jumping LK.i really wish you explained me what you do if your opponent just D+HP you.will you continue jumping till you finally die? secondly,i would like you to precise the mode you currently play(dash or run).we agree Chun li is one of the best R2 in the game in the run mode. Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite French: When i say no threatning anti air, as in sometimes i will go in for a jLK with King or even trade hits. Characters like Mai, Chun, terry, raiden, sakura, blanka. I will jump at them, but usually i only jump on meaty where its hard for them to react The DF+HP of Terry is one of the best "D+HP" in the game. Blanka's standing HP should threaten King a little more:even if he is too near of you , King's jump lets him the time to B+LK+HK then HP. the same stays true for Mai with her F+HP(or D , U+HK for Ex Mai) Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 06:31 PM: French: I think me and Guile agree here that kings jumping LK has insane priority. And dont make the assumption we just jump with it at random times. Odds is guile and myself only jump when we feel safe e.g. meaty attacks. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 06:32 PM: Frenchteam.. good question. I play very cautiously.. my aggression is underlined by safety calculations. So when I jump in w/ LK, it is not just random hopping. I rely on my foot/poke game to break their game down to the point where either: a. I can crossup unexpectedly(and King's jump is small so this isnt hard w/ her) b. I can land a sweep, then crossup as they get up. If I jump and they D+HP, I wont jump again for a while until I have mentally "programmed" the opponent to not be ready for my jump. But when I play, I constantly have safety in mind.. I am just clever w/ attacking safely. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 06:32 PM: I especially will jump at them when they are in the corner and go for a trade off of some sort. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 06:34 PM: How funny.. Geminite and I basically posted the same thing at the same time LOL __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 06:35 PM: creepy indeed Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:39 PM: OK. wait a little while , we're going to test this right now... Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 06:45 PM: Getting crossed up by King isnt pleasant. She has a lot she can do to follow up.. especially in the corner. Ticks, combos, chip combos, re-crossups, juggles, sweeps, a fireball or double fireball, supers... Just jump smart and you'll do fine. Frenchteam.. since u guys play so patiently, surely you'll be able to decipher safe crossup oppurtunities __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:45 PM: do you really play the same game than us. King 's jump is always countered by Terry's DF+HP or Blanka's HP. try on your own. we can't go further otherwise. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 06:48 PM: Yeah, but do those moves counter her LK CROSSUP? Also, again... I jump when you cant anti-air __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 06:55 PM: Terry ' s roll + D + HK counters it. Blanka may B+LK+HK (unless he's in the corner of course,in that case we simply make his roll which increases his power gauge at the same time) then HP if he were guarding before the jump OR F+LK+HK then DF+HP if he was on the offensive or 'neutral' . will we agree before the end of the night (here) ? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 07:03 PM: But the thing is... ALL jump ins are vulnerable to anti-airs... even Nak's. BUT.. it's timing that makes them possible. if I point blank jump at you w/ King, of course you can counter it.. but if I sweep you and then jump in w/ a meaty attack, yo're NOT gonna anti-air it. Also, if we're playing a foot game and I time it so I jump while you are trying to sweep me, you will not recover quickly enough to anti air me. Hence.. mind games __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 07:19 PM: Oh yeah.. i also ONLY use dash mode.. IMO, run mode isnt CvS. And Chun is even better on dash mode __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 07:33 PM: no need to argue any more. it only prove that CvS is not play the same manner on the other side of the atlantic,and this is better for the game: i can't imagine everyone taking the same team and playing it the same way. how terrible this would be. but if you have the occasion of having our videos or even coming to Europe , we will be very happy to welcome you. now,i think that combo stay the same over the world , as for strategy guides . the time will come when we will have to face you! Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 23rd, 2001 07:40 PM: I dont see this as an argument, but as a discussion. All I am saying is that if you set it up properly, any jump in can be safe __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 07:42 PM: Guile: I dont think french knows what we mean by meaty or when anti air cant be used. Obviously we are not going to jump at an opponent who is ready for an attack. Makes no sense Posted by frenchteam on April 23rd, 2001 08:08 PM: i exactely see what you mean . as you mentionned it i thought you 'psychic jump+LK' with King. however i think that every cautious player would prefer to roll at that kind of jump.(be careful at Blanka's level2 special and other things like that.finally,you are cautious players too.(a lot ore than on the videos in any case). Posted by shadowcharlie on April 23rd, 2001 09:30 PM: another question, when a terry does burnt knuckle from half a scree away do i: a]block then attack b]roll through it c]try and knock him out of it and if that is the case with what move? thanks again/ __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 23rd, 2001 10:14 PM: Sorta depends on who you're using. Most of the time, a good Terry player is going to try to use the jab burn knuckle from a safe distance away (not as safe as his crack shot, but still not too bad). If you can, DP or super him out of it, but it really depends on the situation. Blocking is generally not a good idea, cause then Terry's in perfect crackshot range. If you roll, you may or may not be in a better position. If you have fast roll, like Terry, excellent, you can hit him or what now. If you have a shit roll like Kyo or Cammy, then block, cause Terry will maul you if you roll. Hope that wasn't too vague. Posted by GemInite on April 23rd, 2001 11:22 PM: I would not roll cuz if he does the jab burning knuckle he will hit you as you fall out. I personally would block then attack. Posted by VruS on April 24th, 2001 12:22 AM: I'm pretty sure you have enough time with above average reflexes to fireball or shoryuken the burning knuckle. I didn't know terry players used that move. Then again I'm not a terry player. Posted by GemInite on April 24th, 2001 12:41 AM: Vrus. The burning kunckle is pretty fast by the time you react for fireball you'll be hit already Posted by Hero on April 24th, 2001 02:14 AM: but from half a screen away, you could see it and react with something I would think. __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by GemInite on April 24th, 2001 02:39 AM: Hero: Its still pretty fast, its better to just block then counter with a trip instead of trying to beat it Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 24th, 2001 03:34 AM: I AM a Terry player and also didnt know people used the BK LOL I guess its an OK combo ender, but I think it's way too risky as a poke. Sometimes I'll throw it out for surprise value, even half expecting to get hit(Im just all about confusion) If someone were to BK me.. I'd block 'n' combo Guess what guys? I played some EX vega last night.. and did WELL! I re-read the stuff Chen wrote about 'em and utilized my recent poking observations... he's seriously not too bad. I think Vega's biggest problem is that he's a ratio 3. I would play EX Vega Ryu all day, but alas, I cannot. But his crouch Forward is good, and I am having lots of fun w/ wall dive fakes. Also, his KK - B, F+K games are fun too Does anyone know if he has any links into his rolling attack? Im pretty sure cLP doesnt link into it I think if I could consistently combo into the rolling attack, EX Vega would be the shit. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 24th, 2001 03:39 AM: On Ratio 2 mode I use the Weapon Team - Balrog and Nakoruru. One with a claw and one with a short sword. Use Nak to build that Capcom meter, and I just nail with Balrog's Level 3 every single time, I swear. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 24th, 2001 02:18 PM: Guile: You might wanna try using jab burning kunckles in your game, it leaves you just out their range. I tend to jab burning then right into crouching roundhouse Posted by VruS on April 24th, 2001 02:40 PM: I will never understand vega. This is why I will get pounded by him. don't you think it's kinda odd you can't knock off nakoruru's weap like in the other ss games? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 24th, 2001 06:25 PM: Mummy: Man thats a kick ass team LOL how do u make sure you always land the lvl 3? U jump combo it off some jabs? I like EX Balrog better than normal, but I think they're roughly equal Geminite: I will try.. but w/ Terry I'm focusing less on special moves I guess.. but I can use it to mix up and advance VRuS: I know how u feel about Vega, but you should try him.. I always thought Cyclops in MvC2 seemed awkward then one day I just played the comp w/ a Cyclops team and tore shit up w/ em. Vega could b ur new "best guy!" (not likely) All: I was on another thread about Zangief and some people commented about why they liked SNK mode: CrimsonK: "When I'm charging in SNK Groove I will take a fireball or two just to drop Zangief and Raiden in the red and BAM!! Level-three! When Buffering a Super out of your roll use Feirce Punch...That way you can cancel if they try to throw you. When Raiden and Zagief pop out of a roll with even a level-One they are invincible. INVINCIBLE!!! (unless thier opponent is off the ground)" Zeches: "Yes, thats where you zone your rolls to make it so gief comes out of the Roll out of C.Short range but in FAB range. That is why i am a proponent of the Snk mode Gief. Charge up to lvl one then go after em. " Then I explained why I liked Capcom.. I was just wondering from you guys.. Which is better?? Me: "See, I like 'gief in Capcom mode. I just put him as the last guy on my team as I would w/ Ryu(hence I will NEVER play a Ryu/Gief Gief/Ryu team) So before him I play a character or two who dont really need supers as much to be batteries. This has the dual advantage where in Capcom Groove, your regular attacks get stronger the higher your level. So before Zangief is even a worry, Cammy is really kickin' the shit ot of you. The disadvantage to this method is that if he misses the lvl3, its gone. Same as if he lands it. But the advantage is I have the big bad lvl 3 right away, and can play to NOT lose any life and still b a HUGE threat. So I guess my feeling is.. If someone is playing my Zangief, then my other character(s) have already given him a beating. So all I have to do is play good footsie till they jump and I've won. But I can see why SNK would also be strong for him. I'll have to experiment w/ it." Jchensor is writing on there and will probably give his opinion later.. when I see it, I'll post it up here too so you guys can see(in case u dont check out Zangief threads) __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 24th, 2001 08:21 PM: I play gief on snk mode i like to dash XX 720 because it'll go right through fireballs Posted by Grasshoppa! on April 24th, 2001 08:34 PM: Can someone please post some Kim strats? ...Basic pressure string.. bread and butter combo etc. Thanks And which is better, Kim or EX Kim? Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 24th, 2001 08:51 PM: I personally prefer EX-Kim, since I love his "launcher" super, and it's nice to use his d,u + kick following a sweep for a bit more damage. I never found his aerial super or his stance change all that useful anyways, and his C. fierce is an excellent anti-air. I posted this about Kim a LONG time back: I can help with the EX-Kim part: Kim (and EX-Kim) rely on poking and footsie, which is not a bad thing, considering the obnoxious priorities most of his normals have. He's not going to beat anybody with his speed or maneuverability, so you want to keep your opponent in the zone where Kim works best, a little less then midrange. He isn't overly reliant on his specials, it's probably more important for you to master the ranges and properties of certain normals. The important ones to note are: s. short: A quick kick to the midsection, it's fast, has good range, and deceptive priority. Do NOT use this when you're close to a crouching opponent though, since Kim then does his much less useful dinky range not-so-quick kick to the head, unless you're trying to throw them or something. c. short: Again, much like his s. short, fast, generally unpunishable, and has got good range. s/c jab: I just use these as linkers, IMO there's nothing they can do that the shorts can't do better. c. roundhouse: This is a great move... awesome range, (though it doesn't seem to go all the way to the end of his foot) good priority, and great speed. You should learn the link into it (c. short, s/c. jab, c. roundhouse), though there are many variations of it. Should this move be blocked, (up close) cancel it into a qcb+lk (sorry, the name escapes me), sometimes you catch your opponent off guard. C. Fierce: Kim's ghetto anti-air, you have to do it early, but if you're throwing around shorts and basically convincing your opponent he/she can't get anything started on the ground, it's quite possible to get a psychic DP or two. J. Roundhouse: I don't jump in often with Kim, since he has a fairly crummy jump, but this is what I use most of the time, good for crossups, and decent priority. You can also use his qcf+ any kick attack, it works like a dart kick, but never against anybody with a half decent anti air special. His specials aren't anything to write home about, but they do have their uses: Charge d, u + punch: Uh, not that great as far as anti-air (if you miss, you're screwed), but it does have a wierd arc, and more importantly, combos off his launcher super and a crouching roundhouse. I stick with the jabs, and even then, I throw it out very rarely. qcb+ kick: Kim does a flip, and does a crescent kick. If you use Terry, do NOT use this like the crack shoot, I've found that out the hard way... it hits much lower, has more lag after it, and doesn't have nearly the same priority. Still, it does snuff out a lot of normals (I think owing to the fact that it hits them from above rather then contacting them directly), and is good to cover your ass when you screw up. qcf+kick (in air): Again, I don't really recommend jumping around a lot with Kim, it'll probably get you killed. Still, not a bad jump-in to mix up with the roundhouse. d,d, + Kick (i think): I really don't like this move, it's got crap range, crap startup time, and crap lag. Only advantage is that it hits low, but that's what his crouching roundhouse is for. Supers: qcb, hcf + kick: Kim's rushing super, I only use it at level 3, since I like its invulnerability then, and I prefer using his launcher as an anti-air more. Qcf, qcf +kick: Launcher, great priority, you can combo a lv. 1 after a lv. 2 connects, and does great damage. I'll add poke chains and a bit later. (I'll check for accuracy too. Sorry bout that) Posted by GemInite on April 24th, 2001 10:03 PM: I use cLK, cLP, cHK XX d, u+K. I also use tiger knee + K a lot. His rush super has insane priority Posted by Mummy-B on April 25th, 2001 02:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Mummy: Man thats a kick ass team LOL how do u make sure you always land the lvl 3? U jump combo it off some jabs? I like EX Balrog better than normal, but I think they're roughly equal Actually, I don't combo anything into it. It's all about timing. Since it's a Level 3, it has that invincibility frame, and the Level 3 has INSANE reach and priority. I am about 2 1/2 to 3 character lengths away, I can catch any standing limb through any projectile; at 4-7 I can roll and catch say... Ryu, as he is recoiling from a Hadouken, Shoryuken, or any fierce standing limb. Also, doing KK and then going right into the Level 3 is really good. I usually catch people when they jump though. I either KK when the hit is about to connect with me and I nail them, or I dash underneath and nail them from behind. I think one of the best things I do with him is his Rolling Claw move from behind (like a Terry Bogard double roll->Rising Tackle/Power Dunk) and then a standing fierce punch. The standing fierce has so much range it will ALWAYS connect and you HAVE to block it at that distance or DP him out of it, because if you roll at him I can Rolling Claw at you again as you come out the roll. If I connect with the Rolling Claw, I have faked out people and hit them with the Level 3 when they think I'm going to do the standing fierce punch and try to counter it ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 25th, 2001 03:18 AM: oh speaking of Level 3 invincibility frames can someone explain when those frames are active? i know for honda its like not at the start of the animation but at the start when he's actually in his head butt going across the screen Posted by Mummy-B on April 25th, 2001 03:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite oh speaking of Level 3 invincibility frames can someone explain when those frames are active? i know for honda its like not at the start of the animation but at the start when he's actually in his head butt going across the screen Well it actually depends on the move. Like, Honda's for example, he has to push off of the ground to go into the a flying headbutt right? Therefore, the only point he is vulnerable when someone times a hit well enough to catch his legs as he's picking them up. This is like, really really hard to time though, most of the time unless you have someone who hits REALLY fast (ie Benimaru, Yamazaki's sweep, Bison's jab that thing is so fast) Honda will still hit them. But then, for Terry's Power Geyser, it's like, the moment before his fist connects with the ground. You can hit him out of it before that though. At Level 3, it's extended to where he has his hand mid way to the ground. For Buster Wolf its just as he turns to punch you in the head at Level 3. I think Shin Shoryuken is the only one with like, total invinciblity frame with like massive longevity in time. It has like crazy priority and will just about go through anything - I hit Gouki through a air Hadouken once and it was like right in my face and I travelled right through it. Yamazaki has a really really good invincibility on his Drill even at Level 1, I think he has the best invincibility out of all the characters in the game, IMO. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by chun_li1 on April 25th, 2001 09:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by jchensor Check out my FAQ for the game. I've listed ALL the Juggle limits in there, though some of it is missing (EX-Honda's Jab Headbutt Juggle, the Kick ender for Kyo's Three part Rekka-Ken like sequence is also a Juggle, Sakura's Dive kick is a Juggle, and Kim's Air Super is a Juggle). But I should have all of Terry's Juggle limits there. http://www.shoryuken.com/games/cvs/CvS_SG.txt - James To James Chensor Hope this is not too much trouble, but could you tell me where there are links to threads w/ explanations for the Ex-Honda Jab Hbutt Juggle, , Sakura's dive kick, Kim's Air super juggle? I havn't visited the forum that much anymore the last 8 weeks. No Com. at the moment. So I probably missed out on a lot of stuff. Thanks in advance!!! chun_li1 Posted by GemInite on April 25th, 2001 01:05 PM: Chun: Honda owns EX-Honda Posted by Mummy-B on April 25th, 2001 04:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Chun: Honda owns EX-Honda lol I totally saw that coming ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by jchensor on April 25th, 2001 05:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by chun_li1 To James Chensor Hope this is not too much trouble, but could you tell me where there are links to threads w/ explanations for the Ex-Honda Jab Hbutt Juggle, , Sakura's dive kick, Kim's Air super juggle? Well, there are no links to them, actually... And most of them aren't very interesting at all... EX-Honda's Jab headbutt Juggles. Period. If you hit someone out of the air with it, you'll get two hits. So the second hit is a Juggle, and you get extra damage. Not a good enough reason to pick EX or regular Honda, of course. ^_^ Sakura can do Fierce ShoOuKen, Stand Jab, Jumpig Forward Immediate Dive Kick as a combo. So her Dive Kick has one hit of Juggle ability. Kim can jump at an air-borne opponent, and when he's slightly above them do Jumping Fierce into Air Super Dive Kick. If the Air Super Dive Kick didn't Juggle, it wouldn't be able to hit the enemy after the Jumping Fierce. But it does connect. Which means it has Juggle Ability. Not useful, really, in combat. Lastly, Kyo's Kick ending to the Aragami chain? Hahaha... The only time I've ever seen that Juggle is when the second hit kills the opponent, and then the Kick Juggles after the round is over. (So Fireball + Punch, Fireball + Punch (Kills opponent), Kick then Juggles dead opponent). But there's no way to actually implement this usefully anywhere. I only know that it CAN Juggle, and if I want to be complete and accurate, I'd include that in my FAQ. ^_^ - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by GemInite on April 25th, 2001 06:31 PM: Mummy-B: If i see any mention of Ex-Honda i WILL comment =) Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 25th, 2001 06:46 PM: What do you guys think about Guile vs EX Guile? I have always thought Guile was the slightly better character, but yesterday I experimented w/ EX Guile and that strong punch. I realized.. the Sobat MAY be a "better" move, but I myself play MUCH better w/ that strong punch. You guys may know this stuff, but just in case, I'll pu up some of ym EX Guile observations.. His crouch strong links into itself. So you can hit 2 then a Sonic Boom or whatever move you can execute.. i go for booms, they're easier Like regular, EX Guile is a FUCK in the corner.. He can jump in, crouch strong, sonic boom, the crouch strong again and it will link! You can even then do a standing fierce.. I dont know if that combos(I think it doesnt), but it still comes out too fast to be hit between He can also walk forward a little fairly quickly between crouch strongs and such. So that makes him even worse in the corner because as he gets pushed away, he can slowly come back. And by the time he ends his string w/ a boom and is too far to poke, you'll b to busy blocking the boom to anti-air my next jumping knee. Regular Guile may still be the superior character, but I think EX Guile is still the shit! __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 25th, 2001 07:46 PM: i much prefer having the rush super. strong punch IMO is a nice move but its not mobile you gotta crouch then do it where as sobat can be done while walking in. Posted by Mummy-B on April 26th, 2001 04:22 AM: yo the sobat rocks ass. I just started using Guile for the hell of it today. holy mother of something or other. It like outprioritizes so much crap, it even traded with a lp Shoryuken. yo Guile is pretty screwed up... it's great... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by frenchteam on April 26th, 2001 03:04 PM: Guile: you have forgotten to mention that Ex Guile has a fastest DB+HK . there is no way you can hit him between them. in fact his normal moves are all stronger . Guile doesn't need any super to win . all the more so as he keep his jauges in order to hit stronger. Posted by GemInite on April 26th, 2001 05:20 PM: I dunno having a super that juggles into 2 other supers is nice to have when in critical mode. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 26th, 2001 06:25 PM: Yeah, but 3 supers while in a combo, while nice, isnt neccessary. Yes, i know the Sobat rules. I even said I thnk Guile is probably better than EX.. but I was Saying for all whise saying "Guile is sick," EX Guile is almost equally sick! I know, the Sobat is great. But the strong punch is great too! I play and gett in there, so I can go c LP cSP cSP Sonic boom sHK.. thats a damaging ass series and a good pressure tactic. Plus his crossup is just as easy(I love it) to land as regular. I just think EX Guile is more of a combo character and regular is more of a trap character(except for supermoves). Frenchteam.. EX's crouch Forward is fast.. but that fast? I use it to be sure, but I use crouching strong more. I have to disagree. I dont think EX is stronger. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I was pretty sure I heard that speed and damage dont change from normal to EX for any characters. Im not positive.. Chen, didnt you mention this somewhere(in a discussion about Guile vs EX Guile ironically.. the other people just thought EX was faster) I'm still havin fun w/ EX Guile. I also started using "The Rugal Trap" i guess you could call it __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 26th, 2001 09:48 PM: i'll stick to my regular guile if gawd damn terry didnt mess up my game. Posted by Mummy-B on April 27th, 2001 01:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite i'll stick to my regular guile if gawd damn terry didnt mess up my game. Yo if you think Terry is bad, play against my Cammy. I don't know what it is, but I kick the crap out of Guile with her. Alot of people who play me who use Guile try to take her out with whoever else they have first... I have alot of trouble using her against Honda, the Shotos, and Iori. Surprisingly not Kyo though, unless they use EX Kyo. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 27th, 2001 02:15 AM: Mummy-B: What i was trying to say is terry messed up my guile game since i started using him. My guile is AWFUL now. Oh and yes i find cammy ver effective against guile. Posted by Hoe Muffin on April 27th, 2001 03:25 AM: Actually, that's the main reason I don't use EX-Guile, cause Cammy rapes the c. forward (my friend loves Cammy, so everytime I use Ex-Guile, life starts sucking). Regular Guile does alright, but EX-Terry I find does wonders to her. Unless it's EX Cammy. Then I just laugh . Posted by Redcoldfire on April 27th, 2001 05:37 AM: hey mummy-b what type of style of play tdo you use with cammy.... same here i use her and people always fear her i love to use her... what are some things you do? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Mummy-B on April 27th, 2001 07:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Redcoldfire hey mummy-b what type of style of play tdo you use with cammy.... same here i use her and people always fear her i love to use her... what are some things you do? Well, i start off the match with a lk Spiral Arrow - the distance that you start the round in the perfect distance to lk Sprial Arrow and recover without the opponent being able to punish you back if they block. After that, it's all about poking. Down/back and fierce kick is a really really good poke, and I put it with her lk. Whenever they put out a limb or do a fireball, I always lk Sprial Arrow and catch them. Jumping attacks naturally meet a Cannon Spike - but I always make sure I do it at late as i possibly can, because when you do it real deep it's almost unstoppable (learned that from jchensor). Her Spinning Knuckle move is only used sparingly - a lp Spin Knuckle to change up your poking to catch them off guard does well: It will usually be blocked, not punished, so right after you get blocked on the second hit, go right into a lk Spiral Arrow - you'll surprised how many this will connect. Also, whenever I have a Desperation fireball thrown at me (i.e. Shinkuu Hadouken), Spin Knuckle will go right through it as she turns and you can pass through it unharmed and punch your opponent in the face. Hooligan Combination is like the Spinning Knuckle - used sparingly to break up your poking process it can really throw people off. I find that the best thing to do with the HC is to do a fierce punch HC just as the opponent in getting one once - they will not punish it I swear to god because they won't even see it coming = free throw as soon as they stand. Mixing it up with a random lp HC and doing the low kick at the end of it really throws people off too because they expect the throw after the fierce punch HC and either try to punish it and they miss you, or they block high and you hit them anyway. I usually never, ever use her Spindrive Buster unless I am absolutely SURE I am going to connect with it because her recovery on it is horrible and you WILL pay for it if you don't connect, unless they really suck. The Level 1 and 2 Spindrive Busters are really risky to use, so I usually only try to connect with the Level 3 because it's fast as hell and has good range and can easily catch people when they throw out a limb. That's the way I do it. The only thing you have to watch out for is that her Spiral Arrow can be stopped by a crouching jab by most Ratio 2 and higher characters. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by jchensor on April 27th, 2001 07:11 AM: ThisGuileKillYa: I am a FIRM believer that there are NO speed differences nor strength differences between Normal and EX. If there is, it's SO subtle, it can't even be noticed. Even in Super Turbo, I never believed that OG versions of the characters were "faster", as many people would claim. IN Alpha 3, YES, the strength difference IS there (and see how noticeable it is?!?), but there is no speed difference again. I'm a firm believer that it's mostly people's imaginations in those cases. However, Frenchteam MAY be referring to things like Terry's Power Dunk doing more damage than the Rising Tackle at the end of a Buster Wolf combo. In those cases, yeah, strength is different, but different moves are used. If you did the exact same combo is both versions, I'm almost positive the same amount of damage will be delivered. If I'm wrong, please let me know. ^_^ And Mummy-B: I totally agree with you. I love using Cammy against Guile. Lot of work, but in the end, can easily be a winnable fight for her. - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by frenchteam on April 27th, 2001 06:28 PM: quote: Originally posted by jchensor ThisGuileKillYa: I am a FIRM believer that there are NO speed differences nor strength differences between Normal and EX. If there is, it's SO subtle, it can't even be noticed. Even in Super Turbo, I never believed that OG versions of the characters were "faster", as many people would claim. IN Alpha 3, YES, the strength difference IS there (and see how noticeable it is?!?), but there is no speed difference again. I'm a firm believer that it's mostly people's imaginations in those cases. However, Frenchteam MAY be referring to things like Terry's Power Dunk doing more damage than the Rising Tackle at the end of a Buster Wolf combo. In those cases, yeah, strength is different, but different moves are used. If you did the exact same combo is both versions, I'm almost positive the same amount of damage will be delivered. If I'm wrong, please let me know. ^_^ - James all that i wanted to say is that you can perform 3DB+HK with EX Guile while the normal only performs 2 during this laps of time. Posted by jchensor on April 27th, 2001 08:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by frenchteam all that i wanted to say is that you can perform 3DB+HK with EX Guile while the normal only performs 2 during this laps of time. I'll test that out. I'm quite curious now. ^_^ However, that still doesn't mean that EX-Guile is faster... maybe just that one move. Is this true of ALL his moves? - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by GemInite on April 27th, 2001 10:17 PM: I wouldent mind some REgular sim strats. Does he have any combos besides cHP XX yoga fire? I play him strictly at point as a turtle to build meter and to annoy people. Should i try to be more offensive with hiM? Posted by Hero on April 27th, 2001 11:20 PM: Gem: I've seen some nasty aggressive sim players. It might be worth it to give it a shot. The only real strat I know for him is a pushback with lp Yoga Fire, and then c.hp right when the projectile hits. Also his different drill attacks are good for confusion, and to cancel out of his loooooooong jump time. __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by Redcoldfire on April 27th, 2001 11:43 PM: hey thanks for the cammy adcive you gave out i think i gotta learn how to poke better....i know how and when to do thats cannon drill.... but is there any use for her burning knukcles?at least a good use other than project tile uses.. THANKS Mummy-B!!! will thats not mah question any way do you guys any advice for a new geese player i'd like to learn to use him..... i was beating some people with him .... but they were no good, i wanna know what you can tell ma about him __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Mummy-B on April 28th, 2001 01:04 AM: As far as Cammy's Spinning Knuckle move, I asked James Chen the same question you asked me, and this was his reply: "Spinning Knuckle? What's that? ^_^" So that answers that question. - Geese. He's not that great. His Raging Storm is a really good Desperation if you master it and can command it at will, which is alot harder than you think. His crouching fierce kick is good... but unless you are psychic and have super reflexes and can do every one of his counter moves - high, middle, and low - everytime you need to, he's not really worth playing. If it's for fun, by all means. But I would suggest EX Geese, because even he loses his fireball, the Reppuken combos like a mo fo - I have a friend that uses EX Geese pretty good for fun and he can kick some ass with him. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on April 28th, 2001 01:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite I wouldent mind some REgular sim strats. Does he have any combos besides cHP XX yoga fire? I play him strictly at point as a turtle to build meter and to annoy people. Should i try to be more offensive with hiM? Here's some combos I got... I am pretty sure they belong to jchensor - ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ D h a l s i m yoga no kiseki __________________________________________________ ___________________________ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ [01][06 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. Stand close. HK Yoga Blast XX Level 3/MAX Yoga Volcano (hcb + HK XX qcf,qcf + KK) [02][06 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove c.HK XX Level 3/MAX Yoga Volcano (c.HK XX qcf,qcf + KK) [03][03 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.B + HP \/ B + HP XX HP Yoga Fire (Jump B + HP \/ b + HP XX qcf + HP) [04][02 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Dhalsim 1/2 screen away. LP Yoga Fire, s.HP (qcf + LP, s.HP) - Combo also works on jumping opponents in the corner. - Once the c.HK sweeps the opponent into the air, quickly go into the Yoga Volcano to juggle. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on April 28th, 2001 04:34 AM: tnx for the combos mummy/jchen. DUnno how i'll implement that into my game though. Posted by chun_li1 on April 28th, 2001 10:35 AM: Thanks for the lenghty reply James. Unfortunately, except the Sakura thing, I know already the other stuff (totally agree w/ your comments). I first thought, I missed something mayor when that stuff was mentioned! Anyway, for your troubles here is something me & a friend stumbled upon that might give you thought! It seems Nakos low Roundhouse kick has some invincibility frames at the beginning. My proof : Let Balrog execute his Level 1 Supers repeatedly on Nako. Right inbetween the Supers, do the low Rh kick. Both of you will trade. That is, if the Balrog player executed the followup Super as fast as possible. No other character seems to be able to do that. It seems to be a rather weird kick. Another example that comes to mind is against Terry. When you anticipate his Crack shot, it (low RhK) tends to snuff it out. First seen it in one of the Tourny Videos. Not much, but JUST MAYBY we could unlock some new, ultra cool stuff if experiment around! (Yeah right, wishfull thinking!!!) chun_li1 Posted by VruS on April 28th, 2001 02:41 PM: gem the only combo I think that is worth pulling off in the game wit dhalsim is roundhouse slide xx yoga inferno (lvl 1,2,3) It's the only combo I use anyways. Posted by GemInite on April 28th, 2001 02:51 PM: Vrus: I'll try that one today, so far ive only been using crouching fierce XX youga fire Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 28th, 2001 03:47 PM: I love regular Sim.. I play him on SNK groove. Im sorry, i just can't resist the games you can play w/ his supers. One goes along the ground in front of him, one controls the air in front of him. I will corner trap the shit out of people when in the red. I try as hard as I can to play an agressive game.. mnainly the way i thik about Dhalsim is that I'm playing keep away, but from a distance close to him. I get people in the corner a lot w/ Dhalsim(which makes the SNk games even BETTER) I will use fast kick drills as a fast means of advance. Jump kick drill can move you forward pretty quikly and it doesnt look like a dash or a roll, so its good for mix ups. Like maybe quick KD, quick KD, super jump PD. And I do like the punch drill.. I think sometimes I play a little unsafely with it, but I try to incorperate it w/ the mind games so I generally dont get punished much for it excepted w/ a DP now and then Standard Sim trick and one you should ALWAYS do.. jab yoga fire, dash forward, HP or HK. Even if blocked, great for pressure. As for combos, I dont really use many. Kick drill, cLK, yoga fire or dbHP, yoga fire. I can write more later, but I need to go to work. IMO, the best SNK groove team is Dhalsim Cammy EX Mai Yoga super games, all combos ended w/ spidrive smasher, fan games __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 28th, 2001 11:07 PM: im using sim, ex-kin and terry/honda currently Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 29th, 2001 06:25 PM: That is a very good team. My current teams are: Nak Ryu (I know, i know.. but I like Nak before I found out she was gamebreaking) EX Guile Zangief And then pretty much any combinations of r1's and r2's, I like em all. Gem, have you ever tried that trapping shit w/ sim's supers on SNK? U get em into a corner, if you know their play, you can paralyse em LOL. Theyre grounded, QCFQCF P, they jump QCFQCF K __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 29th, 2001 09:15 PM: Guile: if i am sim and manage to get them into the corner i dont even need supers to trap them. I just stick out a standing HK if the roll i do crouching fierce XX yoga fire. Most of the time i never get them in the corner Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 30th, 2001 12:47 AM: I dont think standing HPs and HKs can cause an infinite lock down.. not to say that means it's bad, but it's escapable. the SNK corner trick is too, but I like having it in addition to his other traps. I switch between the two. So I'll kick em and throw yoga fires then go w/ the stream. Then a kick, then I know hes gonna jump, up-flame super. I dunno.. I tend to get people in the corner a lot w/ sim __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 30th, 2001 12:50 AM: i play capcom mode when i use ratio 1's so i cant really abuse the trap anyways Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 30th, 2001 12:52 AM: Thats cool.. its not a straight "trap," but its a nice trapping device __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on April 30th, 2001 02:15 AM: the way i play sim trap is just keep them the hell away. if they roll i do cHP XX yoga fire, if they jump at me i use either b+HP or b+HK Posted by Pulse8 on April 30th, 2001 05:28 AM: quote: all that i wanted to say is that you can perform 3DB+HK with EX Guile while the normal only performs 2 during this laps of time. EX and Normal Guile’s DB+HK have the same speed. Try this in training mode: Choose EX Guile and Guile, then set the cpu character to always jump. Now with EX Guile try and land 3 consecutive DB+HK as soon as the cpu character has landed. (you might want to do this in the corner as it’s easier) You’re going to have to mash the HK real fast to connect 3 times in a row.. but this does not mean that it combos btw. Now try the same with Normal Guile and you will find the he too can do 3 in a row. No speed difference AFAIK. Posted by frenchteam on April 30th, 2001 09:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Here's some combos I got... I am pretty sure they belong to jchensor (for Dhalsim) ... We can add the combos beginning by jump,D+HK or D+HP. The combo D+HK , QCFx2+HK is more often useful with a DF+HK , QCFx2+HK. D+HPx2 connects with a good timing ( like Terry's and Ex Guile's ). Posted by Mummy-B on April 30th, 2001 10:15 AM: Hey, you know how Shin Shoryuken has that "vaccum" property - it kinda sucks people in after the first hit? Does it work if Ryu connects with Dhalsim's extended limb (like a crouching lp for example), will the first hit connect and then he will whiff the next three, or will it not connect at all? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by kymah on April 30th, 2001 01:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite EX-King's throw into double strike only works with level 2 or 3. does NOT work when in corner, just juggle in DP+K. Note: Throw into Super DOES work in the corner, and there are 2 ways to do it: 1. Wait longer then you normally would at half screen, then throw the super. 2. Throw out the knee, then do double strike, that works too. __________________ Jack is GOD Posted by Drahktar on April 30th, 2001 02:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B As far as Cammy's Spinning Knuckle move, I asked James Chen the same question you asked me, and this was his reply: "Spinning Knuckle? What's that? ^_^" So that answers that question. - Geese. He's not that great. His Raging Storm is a really good Desperation if you master it and can command it at will, which is alot harder than you think. His crouching fierce kick is good... but unless you are psychic and have super reflexes and can do every one of his counter moves - high, middle, and low - everytime you need to, he's not really worth playing. If it's for fun, by all means. But I would suggest EX Geese, because even he loses his fireball, the Reppuken combos like a mo fo - I have a friend that uses EX Geese pretty good for fun and he can kick some ass with him. Woo! I've been using EX Geese since the beginning and he just rocks. That and he has the coolest throw in the game, and I throw a LOT. __________________ Three fingers and I steal your images. Posted by GemInite on April 30th, 2001 02:33 PM: Mummy B if you are somewhat close to the body e.g. throw range it will connect, but say he is half a screen away and you hit his standing HK then it'll only hit once with minimal damage Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 30th, 2001 02:44 PM: Geminite, w/ Sim I play keepaway too. but while I do it, I also advance gradually so they eventually get pushed up against the corner.. then after a little more advancing they are scrizewed lol As for Geese.. I agree w/ Mummy B that unless you can just whip out his stupid ass triple half circle super AND his counters any time you damn well please, he's pretty worthless. I also agree too, tho, that for fun, EX Geese isnt too bad.. cuz that Double reppuken really does combo off LOTs of stuff I was playing w/ Rugal the other day and figured out a pretty cool trap w/ him (Why do I envision frenchteam posting "We have know this trap since the forever" ) It may be nothing NEW, but I was getting a screen away and repeatedly throwing Kaiser Waves but timing em correctly anf holding HP down and letting go at the right times.. it's surprisingly effective if you time it well. Cuz what can they do? Roll? Hold down HP. Jump? Hold down HP. I gotta play w/ it more to see if maybe it was a fluke against my friend(I whipped his ass just w/ this "trap" lol) or if this is an actual effective pattern Rugal can incorperate into his game.. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Urotsukidoji on April 30th, 2001 04:29 PM: Hey, ThisGuile, someone was doing that Rugal thing to me the other day. I got nailed a few times cause I kept trying to jump or roll at him, but then I realized that you have to just be patient. Just wait until the kaiser wave comes out and then roll, slowly walking towards him the whole time. The guy I was playing wasn't great or anything, so there might be something I'm missing, but the trap was pretty easy to get around when he was using it. Posted by GemInite on April 30th, 2001 05:27 PM: Guile: Wouldent the kaiser trap be amazing if you could predict their rolls and finish with a rush super instead? Posted by Hero on April 30th, 2001 05:40 PM: Mummy B: About Ryu's Shinshoryuken, yes, it does vaccum. Quite well too. One time Raiden went to hit me with c.hk, and I hit shinshoryuken right before his kick connected. It caught his leg, and when he was in reel stun, he was few steps away from me, but the shinshoryuken pulled him in. So I think it could pull sm in too, but not from too far a distance. __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on April 30th, 2001 08:11 PM: Heh, well I wasnt claiming the "Rugal Trap" to be game breaking heh I do think, tho, that if you are good w/ "psychic" moves, then the pattern can be effective if you REALLY have a mastery of the move. Plus, I NEVER play the same patterns over and over.. so I will do other stuff, then if I end up a full screen away, I start tossin' em all over the place. Geminite.. if you can precit the roll, I dont see why you couldnt do the super.. but I dunno if I'd trust my judgement on anything higher than lvl 1. That's just me tho Yeah, patience is the key on that trap.. but the thing is.. when you start to get hip to the trap.. I will get hip to you being hip(if you follow). So I may vary my KW patterns.. if I know you're waiting for it, I may throw one normal, then throw one and wait a sec, then throw one and wait a sec again, then normal, than 2 sec.. All about mixin it up __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on April 30th, 2001 08:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Geminite, w/ Sim I play keepaway too. but while I do it, I also advance gradually so they eventually get pushed up against the corner.. then after a little more advancing they are scrizewed lol As for Geese.. I agree w/ Mummy B that unless you can just whip out his stupid ass triple half circle super AND his counters any time you damn well please, he's pretty worthless. I also agree too, tho, that for fun, EX Geese isnt too bad.. cuz that Double reppuken really does combo off LOTs of stuff I was playing w/ Rugal the other day and figured out a pretty cool trap w/ him (Why do I envision frenchteam posting "We have know this trap since the forever" ) It may be nothing NEW, but I was getting a screen away and repeatedly throwing Kaiser Waves but timing em correctly anf holding HP down and letting go at the right times.. it's surprisingly effective if you time it well. Cuz what can they do? Roll? Hold down HP. Jump? Hold down HP. I gotta play w/ it more to see if maybe it was a fluke against my friend(I whipped his ass just w/ this "trap" lol) or if this is an actual effective pattern Rugal can incorperate into his game.. Yeah acutally, that's what I was talking about before when I did that really long post on Rugal and how Kaiser Wave is probably his best move. If you hold it for the maximum time and catch someone in the air with it, yo it's like 3 hits for pretty good damage. Same thing with Yamazaki's Serpent Slash, the longer the hold it the more damage it does... Oh yeah, if you ever have trouble with people rolling at you, do his Dark Barrier. Counters rollers. I kicked the living poo poo out of EX Terry because he kept rolling trying to Power Dunk me and Dark Barrier caught him out of his roll every single time. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Saint Eva on April 30th, 2001 11:52 PM: Hi. I'm posting in regards to some troubles I am having in CvS (I type like a nerd). This is probably old hat, but I don't think people have ever discussed Iori's Desperation trap. If he is ever low on life and charges up a max bar at full screen, you can pretty much consider yourself dead because there is little chance of getting out. After Iori executes a level 3 8 Wine Cups he recovers after about the first pillar so he is either walking with the pillars or charging up his bar again. If you block the pillars, this thing chips like a mofo AND it brings you to the other side of the screen where Iori is safe from everything you can think of. The pillars are too tall to jump and very difficult to roll past and unless you have a long roll like Dhalsim, you cannot roll out of it (my poor Terry ). A good player will throw you out of the roll, anyhow. When the 8 Wine Cups has finished Iori has probably charged himself another meter, so expect the stay in the corner for a long time. If the 8 Wine Cups connected, he will have charged up and stuck a level 3 Maiden Masher up your ass. How do you escape? Are there any characters that cannot escape or have a very tough time trying? If you have a strategy that involves eating any of the two supers, don't bother; the arcade where the Iori scrubs play at has the CvS machine set on 4 damage so you'll probably die after one super . Thanks in advance. Posted by VruS on May 1st, 2001 12:58 AM: Guess what, I try to play at the woodbine arcade. It has been a loooong time since I went to face somebody in CvS. Yar, sticks are so different from a pad. I find out the most popular characters are ex-vice,ryo,kim,iori. Notice a pattern here? RUSH SUPERS!!!! Meh, since nobody here has ever heard of guile (>=]) I decide to continusly kick major major major ass. Of course I was just adjusting to arcade sticks so I wasn't up to par in my fighting skills. Plus my arcade at max damage, chipping kills, one levle 3 and your gone. So a couple times I beat up iori. Meh, the lucky maiden masher gets me. So in all the end. It takes a lot of patience to roll the eight wine cups. I rolled with ryu. You just need to time right and roll. The best way is to put preassure on iori so he won't launch those wine cups. Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 01:10 AM: Vrus Those are some pretty poor tactics used at Woodbine. Saint Eva: super jump into wine cups high and take the hit, as soon as you hit the grouud roll and trip. And you can roll Posted by Azrael-sama on May 1st, 2001 04:21 AM: Gem is right, you can roll. I managed to roll through it with Ryu. What I did was, for the first Wine Cups, I simply blocked it. I knew it was coming again, so I dashed forward just as the super animation for the second Wine Cups was starting, then rolled past it. I think I caught the other guy by surprise, as I was able to simply foot sweep him for the win. -Az Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 04:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by Saint Eva Hi. I'm posting in regards to some troubles I am having in CvS (I type like a nerd). This is probably old hat, but I don't think people have ever discussed Iori's Desperation trap. If he is ever low on life and charges up a max bar at full screen, you can pretty much consider yourself dead because there is little chance of getting out. After Iori executes a level 3 8 Wine Cups he recovers after about the first pillar so he is either walking with the pillars or charging up his bar again. If you block the pillars, this thing chips like a mofo AND it brings you to the other side of the screen where Iori is safe from everything you can think of. The pillars are too tall to jump and very difficult to roll past and unless you have a long roll like Dhalsim, you cannot roll out of it (my poor Terry ). A good player will throw you out of the roll, anyhow. When the 8 Wine Cups has finished Iori has probably charged himself another meter, so expect the stay in the corner for a long time. If the 8 Wine Cups connected, he will have charged up and stuck a level 3 Maiden Masher up your ass. How do you escape? Are there any characters that cannot escape or have a very tough time trying? If you have a strategy that involves eating any of the two supers, don't bother; the arcade where the Iori scrubs play at has the CvS machine set on 4 damage so you'll probably die after one super . Thanks in advance. We did discuss this breifly in the thread before, but I dont remember if a concolsion was drawn. Pwersonally, I think if the Iori player plays correctly, the trap is very very effective. I think the best counter is prevention, really. Never tried Geminite's rioll method, but it sounds good to me __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Bastion on May 1st, 2001 04:47 AM: Someone mind explaining to me the minor differences between EX and Normal Ken? I'm picking him up a bit and haven't found a advantage using EX. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 04:53 AM: Just wanted to let you guys know....... I was playin CvS today and I wanted to share a few things w/ u guys... 1. Rugal.. I tried my little "Rugal trap" again. I swear to god this thing kicks ass LOL It's like you get into a rhythm w/ it and its unstoppable! Not really UNSTOPPABLE, but the thing is if they escape, you can usualy forsee it. So, yeah, they may be able to jump out of it, but if they do, fake the KW and DP+K or something. Im so confident of this, that i am thinking Rugal may be the top r3. Im not sure yet, but damn.. its a REALLY powerful keepaway tactic And while I'm risking getting flamed, the other observaion.. 2. Ryo. I've always thought he was good.. but my friend was turning it up today and yet again, i dominated the shit out of him w/ Ryo. I swear this guys is top tier. Always thought so and now im convinced. He's not in the Nak/Guile arena.. but I mean it when I say he's no lower than Ryu or EX Terry. I dont play strictly this way, but really, all you need to do w/ Ryo is play keep away w/ his air and ground and super fireball. Too good So, at the risk of getting flamed, Im declaring Rugal and Ryo 2 of the best characters in the game. Just wish we had online play so i could prove it __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on May 1st, 2001 05:03 AM: The only thing that is a defisate with Rugal's Kaiser Wave is that it can be cancelled by a regular fireball, so if the other player gets frustrated, they can always start the fireball war, and qcf+p can be done a tad faster than f,hcf+p. So eventually, Rugal would lose out. But then, if you mix it up with a Dark Barrier and then Kaiser Wave when they jump over thier reflected projectile or roll through it, you can catch them. The only real person Rugal has a problem with as far as Ratio 3 is concerned is Yamazaki. Yamazaki has, in my opinion, a much better return and can follow it up quickly by simply dashing in behind it and doing either a standing or crouching fierce kick. He can even return it and follow it up with buffered Level 3 Guillotine. At the right distance, natutally standing fierce kick and Serpent Slash happen faster than Kaiser Wave in most cases, so I believe Yamazaki dominates Rugal also for the fact that Yamazaki has a much better up-close threat espeically in EX mode IMO. ... and blah, i hate his Genocide Cutter. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. It can be hit out of so easily. >_< __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 02:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa So, at the risk of getting flamed, Im declaring Rugal and Ryo 2 of the best characters in the game. all of a sudeen im less inclined to post here Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 02:20 PM: Kaiser wave trap should be fairly easy to get out of. One basic rule to remember is he can only throw one fireball at a time. So as it come roll there is still slight delay time because the original KW has to leave the screen before the next one comes out Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 02:22 PM: As far as top ratio 3's are concerned its still Yamazaki ex or regular. hes got killer combo's, insane sweep range plus unblockable super. Rugal is only effective against some people. Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 02:25 PM: and about RYo, uggggh no comments, He's only decent cuz of his cheap McDonalds Combo's of jHK, sHP XX Fireball, does too much damage. air fireball, Sweep is not my opinion of a trap. Posted by Urotsukidoji on May 1st, 2001 03:58 PM: Ah...I misunderstood you ThisGuile. I thought you were saying that you were ONLY doing the kaiser wave repeatedly hehe. That's why I was saying basically what GemInite said...that there's only going to be one KW at a time, so you can just wait for it to come out and then roll. What you said interests me, though. I've always liked Rugal, but I just didn't think he was good enough to learn very well. How do you handle yourself when you opponent is up close? When you're cornered? Or is the idea to just never GET cornered? Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 05:05 PM: if you're rugal and you manage to get the opponent up close i sometimes use cLK, cLK XX Super genocide cutter Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 06:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite and about RYo, uggggh no comments, He's only decent cuz of his cheap McDonalds Combo's of jHK, sHP XX Fireball, does too much damage. air fireball, Sweep is not my opinion of a trap. "Less inclinded to post here" Geez... I wouldnt be saying this shit if I didnt have real reason to think so. Geminite.. you sound like you're a very good player.. so think about it.. the air fireball, that "McDonalds combo"(LOL!!) is awesome! Yeah, its easy, yeah it does damage.. whats the complaint? Ryo has a GREAT kep away game.. and he can pelt u w/ tons of shit from a few directions while he's doin it. Plus, his awkward pokes make his foot game very basic, but its also fairly effective. But then again, we dont play Ryo like we do Kim. Think about what he has.. a good sweep, an easy damaging combo, an air fireball, a straight fireball, a fast super fireball, a rush super, an overhead, a high super jump, good standing pokes The only other char. who has what he has is Akuma. The biggest downfall to Ryo tho, is that his jHK, while great to start combos, does not crossup too well. So I usualy do the jump in regular but VERY deep. So I'll always be safe unless against a PERFECTLY TIMED Ryu or something. And even then, I'll adjust my game. Ryo is also good because he, like Nak, has a few very different attacking games he can play. Nak can cross u up to death, then out of no where, play bird games. Well Ryo can go from a combo/meaty series to his air fireball games. Admittedly, his transition back to in-close fighting isnt as easy, but he still has decent attacks. Open up your mind, Geminite LOL Give him a try. I never really think of a character as so terrible like you guys do. My goal is always to try and master em all. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Mummy-B on May 1st, 2001 06:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by Urotsukidoji Ah...I misunderstood you ThisGuile. I thought you were saying that you were ONLY doing the kaiser wave repeatedly hehe. That's why I was saying basically what GemInite said...that there's only going to be one KW at a time, so you can just wait for it to come out and then roll. What you said interests me, though. I've always liked Rugal, but I just didn't think he was good enough to learn very well. How do you handle yourself when you opponent is up close? When you're cornered? Or is the idea to just never GET cornered? Rugal is basically a distance fighter - he does best controlling the game from afar, which is the why the charging/time change on the Kaiser Wave is so good, and how the Dark Barrier stops incoming rollers. He has a lot of moves to keep you at bay - a kick DP for air attacks(even though its not that great), a basic ground-based fireball, an air projectile, a projectile reflection, and a command charging move/throw that covers relatively good distance. Rugal must control the game from far away only get close combat when he ready for it - Genocide Heaven or Gigantic Pressure are usually the way to go in close. That's why EX Rugal is ridiculous. Rugal doesn't have the speed or arsenal capable of handling the up-close fighting he has to use in EX mode, so he is not *nearly* as effective as he needs to be. ... Oh yeah, and Ryo on Capcom Groove is *awesome*. I agree that he's up there with Ryu. He has a firball with great (better than Ryu's) recovery, and his Level 3 Kokyugen no Ogi(rush super) is like, death - catches people out of the air, goes through projectiles, and is basically a garunteed half life taken off. Ryo also has great pressure tactics as well. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 06:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B ... Oh yeah, and Ryo on Capcom Groove is *awesome*. I agree that he's up there with Ryu. He has a firball with great (better than Ryu's) recovery, and his Level 3 Kokyugen no Ogi(rush super) is like, death - catches people out of the air, goes through projectiles, and is basically a garunteed half life taken off. Ryo also has great pressure tactics as well. Shiiiit.. and I dont even really use the rush super too often. Maybe I should if it catches peopel out of the air But that's cool you too know of Ryo's killing potential Geminite will come around __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 06:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Urotsukidoji Ah...I misunderstood you ThisGuile. I thought you were saying that you were ONLY doing the kaiser wave repeatedly hehe. That's why I was saying basically what GemInite said...that there's only going to be one KW at a time, so you can just wait for it to come out and then roll. What you said interests me, though. I've always liked Rugal, but I just didn't think he was good enough to learn very well. How do you handle yourself when you opponent is up close? When you're cornered? Or is the idea to just never GET cornered? LOL No, I'm the one who always says if you do ANYTHING repeatedly, you'll get killed. The Kaiser Wave trap is a sub game of Rugals. And it incorperates 2 skills.. knowing HOW to do it, and knowing WHEN do do it. (The when to do it skill also includes "when to end it" as well) The whole game is about safety calculation, so of course im not gonna throw a Kaiser wave while someone is super jumping to Rugal's head. But from a screen away, if it's unexpected, you can generally throw a KW and at least have it blocked. So in that SHORT blockstun I'll start the code for another and watch you. Do DO have time to move so I'll see what you do. If I feel confident you're not gonna roll or jump, I will throw the 2nd one just as quick. But if I think a jump or roll is possible, I will throw it and watch. I will hold it for a split second and if I see a jump, keep holding. if I see a roll, keep holding. Then the "let go" is timed accordingly. And sometimes you will fake the KW(by, perhaps, hitting HP) and when they jump, Gen Cutter. Mummy-B hates the Gen Cutter and I get why.. it's not as reliable as, say, a dragon punch. But I think the trick to it is(as far as ive seen, anyway) that you dont wanna land the gen cutter deep like a DP or PD, you want the blade part to hit. So you have to be a little more "psychic" w/ it.. hence it not being completely relable anti air. I never claimed the KW stuff to be infallable.. but if you are FAST w/ KW's and know how to read an opponent, its very fun and very effective. but again, you gotta mix it up so that's not all I'll do. I used to LOVE rugal and his attacks, then i started to realize that his speed made him fairly limited. And it does.. but if you play a smart keepaway game, you can get more oppurtunities to throw a KW. Also... if your opponent is realizing what u are doing w/ KWs, then throw 1, then advance.. they will not know what to do. It will take a good player 1 sec to adjust, but that's 1 sec to strategize. So you may throw a KW, then roll. If they havent yet moved, throw another KW.. maybe even hold down the botton.. because they may be so frazzled from adjusting to the roll, that when they hear "Kaiser..," they may just jump over it. So u hold down the botton. Also, Rugal has another fireball that can be used w/ Kaiser waves for guessing games Rugal has some OK jump in's but I would use em way sparingly because the only way they're truly safe is if they really dont see em coming. If you do get in close, both the Gen Cutter AND the HCB+P move combo off of cLK's He also has a strong throw. If you get cornered.. I would say just defend well until you see an opening to Gen Cutter or roll. It may take longer to find this opening against, say, Guile.. but no one can apply infinite lockdown so it's there. And yeah, you may take a sonic boom or a cFK in your efforts to roll away.. but so what.. time to super jump backwards and throw a KW. So yeah, you don't really wanna get cornered, but if you do, it's not neccessarily a loss. Tho a good player can turn it into one if yo're not 100% alert to openings __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 07:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Open up your mind, Geminite LOL Give him a try. RYO can be effective but hes such a scrub character IMO. I refer to it as "McDonalds combo" because its sOOOooo cheap. ITs bull shit. Kinf of like nak's bi-way combo Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 07:46 PM: yes thats another reason why isay ryo is a BS character the rush super has too much priority, takes them out of the air plus out of rolls. Well you catch them at the end of the roll, like his rapid hand shit. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 1st, 2001 07:50 PM: Yeah Gem.. but why would that piss you off? It's almost like you're saying he's TOO effective. I mean you can dislike him, but having easy, damaging combos and an easy to hit super tends to make me LIKE a character. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Hoe Muffin on May 1st, 2001 08:14 PM: I dislike primarily because he's got the crappiest animations in the game . Posted by GemInite on May 1st, 2001 10:54 PM: Guile: He is VERY SLOW, has the WORST jump and is Extremly predictable IMO. If he was more mobile i might like him more. I would rather use 2 ratio 1's than him. e.g. his little sister is much more effective Posted by VruS on May 1st, 2001 11:09 PM: well gem, what you said just made me wanna try ryo =]. Currently I want to learn yamazaki (yamakazi?). He just seems to have the power to beat everybody. Posted by GemInite on May 2nd, 2001 02:05 AM: Vrus: Yes yamazaki is quite the man, both versions i find to be very effective Posted by GemInite on May 2nd, 2001 02:08 AM: ALL: I tried ex cammy and ex Chun li today, man do they suck, the supers are nice to look at but they are awful Posted by Supergeek on May 2nd, 2001 02:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by VruS well gem, what you said just made me wanna try ryo =]. Currently I want to learn yamazaki (yamakazi?). He just seems to have the power to beat everybody. Yamazaki and EX Yamazaki are certainly good characters and IMO the best Ratio 3 character. Depending on who you choose will be deciding on which super will you use more, Drill (Better) or Guilotine (Anti Air) EX Yamazaki is easier to combo in because he can combo in Guilotine off of a c.Roundhouse (which is the next best link next to s.Fierce XX LK Serpent Slash) Yamazaki's a dope character, respect him! __________________ I love you Ashley, and you have a special place in my heart and soul. -_^ Have the hindsight to know where you've been, the foresight to know where you're going and the insight to know that you've gone too far. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 2nd, 2001 02:54 AM: Yeah, Yamazaki is great. He is the best r3.. I now think Rugal is right at his heels, but 'zaki is just very cool And as for Ryo.. yes, he is slow.. but so is gief, so is sim. You work w/ what he has.. which is a lot. His jump is awkward, yeah.. but if you can calculate it's safety, I actually kinda like it. As for predictability... IMO, a character is as predictable as the guy playin' him. And as for Yuri.. I love EX Yuri! Non-CvS related: A new, red Mountain Dew came out here today called Mountain Dew: Code Red.. it's like cherry MD.. pretty good __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by Supergeek on May 2nd, 2001 03:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by ThisGuileKillYa Non-CvS related: A new, red Mountain Dew came out here today called Mountain Dew: Code Red.. it's like cherry MD.. pretty good That sounds bad, like Cherry 7-up __________________ I love you Ashley, and you have a special place in my heart and soul. -_^ Have the hindsight to know where you've been, the foresight to know where you're going and the insight to know that you've gone too far. Posted by GemInite on May 2nd, 2001 03:35 AM: Guile: Fortunatley for me i tried ryo at home and like Vega he is also an experiment gone wrong. Posted by VruS on May 2nd, 2001 03:58 AM: nwe mountain dew? does it taste more like cherry coke or dr.pepper? Posted by Mummy-B on May 2nd, 2001 05:27 AM: Another off topic statement, I go home to Japan today from college in Boston! ^_^!!!!! I'll be playing CvS Pro in not too long, I'll be sure to let you guys know how it is! __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 2nd, 2001 07:29 AM: Haha, no way.. Ryo kicks ass Code Red takes like regular Mountain Dew mixed w/ Cherry 7-up, kinda. Hard to explain __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 2nd, 2001 07:00 PM: Woah forum is getting sad if we start talking about Mountain dew. Ummm lets hear some Vega starts preferably Regular Vega. I tried him, didnt do very good, wouldentmind trying him again Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 2nd, 2001 08:31 PM: Yeah, I prob shouldnt have brought up Code Red.. but it was on my mind at the time I play w/ EX Vega when I play Vega.. I just read a bunch of stuff Chen wrote and went from there. I deemed Vega useless a while ago, so admittedly my strats w/ him aren't my own. He's really not TOO terrible.. but there are better r3's and r3's arent too good to begin w/.. I bet some cool pair match teams are possible tho, like EX Vega Ryu or EX Vega Zangief __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 2nd, 2001 10:00 PM: What makes Ex-Vega better? I like normal one cuz of that flip kick hing he has. Doe hs he have a standard anti air? Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 3rd, 2001 06:42 AM: If you're talkin' about the DB, F+K move, EX Vega has it. It works very well, too, w/ his KK move __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 3rd, 2001 03:56 PM: he has it too? had no idea. I just like REgular Vega's super. When i get my CvS back i'll try them both out Posted by jchensor on May 3rd, 2001 05:20 PM: I use EX-Vega only because of the Wall Super... The meter doesn't drain UNLESS you grab someone, which is nice. I think regular Vega is PROBABLY better in the end, mainly because he has Crouch Strong. EX-Vega has no Crouch Strong, but has Crouch Forward (which helps me a bit, because I ALWAYS hit Crouching Forward from habit, an in Normal Vega mode, I slide, and that kills me so much). Reall, Vega is just a fun character to play, but shouldn't be used too seriously. Too many inherent weaknesses. He's just not AS bad as most think, so it's always fun to catch people off guard with him... ^_^ - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by Mummy-B on May 3rd, 2001 05:24 PM: Man, I am all about Ratio 2 mode Nakoruru and Balrog. His Level 3 Claw thingie is just instant death. ... unless they crouch... son of a .... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 3rd, 2001 06:34 PM: Hmmm I'll have to try out both versions of Vega. As for Nak I'm not a big fan of her because for some reason I just get the feeling in CvSp she will be considerably weaker. Posted by Sho 2 on May 3rd, 2001 06:45 PM: This may sound like a stupid question but why is EX Benimaru better than Regular Beni. I would give my reasons but I'll wait to see what some else says. Posted by GemInite on May 4th, 2001 02:59 AM: Sho: hes more mobile, gain a command throw, super throw, anti air super, air fireball, a dashing kick. And hurricane kick move pushes people away Posted by GemInite on May 4th, 2001 03:21 AM: Hmm guys d/l the new CvS combo video, A lot of them arent very realistic as in no way can you pull that off in a real game but hey its interesting. Nice vega combos too Posted by Sho 2 on May 4th, 2001 03:40 AM: Yeah, I know all this but here is why I use the regular Beni. First, I have trouble doing HCB,F and HCBx2 moves. Secondly,use the dahsing super as it is the easiest super to combo for me and both his regular Electric fists still serve as anti-air. Third, his hurricane kick as you put it does mega chip damage and has greater anti-air properties. Lastly, I have problems with Blanka, Sim, and EX Yuri in EX. Posted by GemInite on May 4th, 2001 04:05 PM: Sho 2: Just practice the HCB+F motions. When you say you have troubles with those other ratio 1's do you mean using them or playing against theM? Posted by NIN_DJ_Vicious on May 4th, 2001 06:11 PM: HELP PLZ i need some EX-VICE tips plz like how to keep up pressur and poking also i want to ask when you do this one combo crossup then c.lp, c.lp mayhem(qcb+P, followed by deciding slayer(dp+P...when i do mayhem do i do it with LP or HP?? __________________ "There is nothing there to believe... Nor is there a need to believe... " -Vicious Posted by Mummy-B on May 4th, 2001 10:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by NIN_DJ_Vicious HELP PLZ i need some EX-VICE tips plz like how to keep up pressur and poking also i want to ask when you do this one combo crossup then c.lp, c.lp mayhem(qcb+P, followed by deciding slayer(dp+P...when i do mayhem do i do it with LP or HP?? Actually you can do c.lp x3, qcb + fierce punch, DP+k. That's about all I can help you with, I don't use Vice all that much, I prefer her rival Cammy ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Redcoldfire on May 4th, 2001 10:44 PM: hy peoples i was wondering which grove most of you guyes preferred capcom or snk as for me cant decide which one i should use mah team: chun li cammy king __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by GemInite on May 4th, 2001 10:52 PM: RedCold: I would use capcom, all your characters are offensive so really have no time to charge Posted by Mummy-B on May 4th, 2001 10:58 PM: Yeah I agree with GemInite to a certain extent, however, all of those characters are well used in SNK Groove as well when they are in critical. King especially with her Silent Flash, and Chun li can combo every single one of her Desperations into another after a Level 3 Senretsu Kyaku in the corner. Cammy on the other hand, I believe works best in Capcom Groove because her Level 3 Spindrive Buster is nice to be able to dish out whenever you like, much like Ryu's Shin Shoryuken. It's really up to you, but for the way that I play these characters, I would go with SNK Groove, Cammy first, King second and Chun Li third. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 5th, 2001 05:03 AM: I personally have learned not to depend on the critical supers. they are good to an extent but a missed super leaves you VERY vulnerable and since in critical you cant affor to lose anymore life Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 5th, 2001 08:39 AM: I try never to depend on supers unless Im using characters whose strategy depends on them(Ryu, Ken, Zangief, etc) I like Cammy on SNK Groove because I dont worry about supers much anyway, but when on red, any combo you do can end w/ a lvl 1 SDS instead of a Cannon Drill I think King is more suited to Capcom groove. Her strategy is not DEPENDANT on it, but makes good use of her anti air super. Kind of nice to have a few of them stored in case of a jump Chun Li I never use supers much w/.. so I tend to put her on SNK teams just cuz when Im on red, I will abuse her supers since it's unexpected. But she can also be good on Capcom because on Capcom characters are stonger as their meter builds and a charcter is at their strongest on lvl 3 capcom. So to answer ur question, i would play that team on Capcom Groove w/ order Cammy, Chun Li, King Cammy doesnt need supers so she can be a battery. Chun wont use the supers really either so w/ Cammy, u can use a lvl 1 SDS to end a combo for more damage and not have to worry about fucking over ur next char. Then comes Chun Li. Chances are she'll have some meter built up plus she will continue to build. Since she wont use meter but will eventually be lvl 3, u then have Chun Li, a KICK ASS character, at her strongest. Then, if they manage to get by the beefed up Chun, you end w/ King who has meter built enough so they cant jump at you(anti air super) PLUS, if you manage to corner combo them, the meter works well for super juggles That's how I'd do it at least IMO, the best r1's to use on SNK are Dhalsim and EX Beni. The high-low games u can play w/ infinite lvl 1's are great EX Beni Dhalsim EX Mai on SNK... ouch __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 6th, 2001 04:41 AM: GUile: This is just my Opinion, but you might want to use Chuns supers more. Her super fireball has vaccum priority plus its like sim where as long as one hit connects you are guaranteed they wont bounce away Posted by GemInite on May 6th, 2001 04:45 AM: Guile: also both her vertical and horizontal super (sorry dunno the names) are pretty damaging on wake up. Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on May 6th, 2001 06:01 AM: Yeah, Im sure it would be better.. and it's not like I NEVER do em.. Im just not usualy thinkin about it, I guess. I'd just rather rush w/ er. __________________ "I need a boner report. I need to know who is one and who's causing one" Posted by GemInite on May 6th, 2001 06:05 PM: Guile. WEll if you are rushing its good but her super fireball is too good because of the vaccum properties and its practically invisible Posted by GemInite on May 7th, 2001 12:45 AM: I tried vega this past weekend and am sad to say that he had no effect. Hes fun but i dont see him being at comp level. Posted by honda man on May 7th, 2001 10:09 AM: Honda is the king! Gem, how do you figure that honda rapes guile and the shotos? I love honda, and I learned how to play him and kick ass without the video, but because of that, all the shotos that I have played against for the last four months just dp me out of it. That and my head butt. So that part of my game is out. Of course they don't throw many fireballs unles they're more than half screen away, and punish my counters. I don't let them hurt me too much, unless I completely miss judge the cross over, and they jump to my other side. As for guile...I have never beat out his flash kick with my ass. I'm very disappointed. Both hk splash, and lk splash. I usually win there anyway. Also, I like both equally well, depending on my mood... EX is easier, since your moves don't put you in a bad position like a c.hp would. Same with the kick, it has higher priority. If I have the energy, and am feeling slightly chipper that day...the old grab and slam with my ass. Oh, and whoever said that yamizaki will beat honda every time...I find that contrary to the truth, which is that honda is the master of the universe. Posted by honda man on May 7th, 2001 10:12 AM: whoops this thread has past this a long time ago...what are the best anti airs and anti cross ups for vega and bison? Posted by Mummy-B on May 7th, 2001 01:43 PM: Actually a well tuned Yamazaki player can beat the crap out of a Honda. I mastered the last-minute lk Sadomazo so that you don't know that I am doing it by the time it connects with you and counters, which screws most characters because it acts basically like a DP, but it's even worse for Honda because it can just about counter any special he has. Unfortunately, it can't be done as a wake-up effectively. Yamazaki's major weapons against Honda are his crouching jab (stops the headbutt), Sadomazo, standing and crouching fierce kick (naturally), and Guillotine. Yamazaki's standing and crouching fierce kicks seem to have a much higher priority over any of Honda standing or crouching normal moves. The Guillotine on wake-up is really devastating to a Honda applying pressure because it can catch just about anything Honda dishes out. ... just my two cents... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 7th, 2001 06:10 PM: Honda: Honda's LK butt drop beats out ALL moves if they are 2nd, they also go through sonic booms. against guile they pretty much ave to throw out booms to tempt you to go at them just use LK butt drop them it'll take em out, same applies to the flash kicks. If honda goes up 2nd he will win Posted by GemInite on May 7th, 2001 06:11 PM: Honda: as for shotos, if they are using Psychic DPs fake a head butt then use a cHK, now that they are on the ground do HK butt drops for the cross up. It is VERY hard to block on wake up, mix up with head butts and 360's if they turtle. Posted by GemInite on May 7th, 2001 11:58 PM: Sim Users: Heres a new strat I use, Sim's air taunt has literally saved my life a few times. Sometimes when i jump in and have the feeling they are going to do a level 3 or i see them doing it i hit start and it delays in the air long enough to miss getting hit Posted by Mummy-B on May 7th, 2001 11:58 PM: Yeah, seriously, I have been punished for trying to psychic DP all the time. I believe it was jab Headbutt, which naturally came short, and I whiffed a DP, and then I got raped by a Level 3 Headbutt Desperation. It was rather painful. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Sho 2 on May 8th, 2001 01:29 AM: Can anyone point to Iori strats on any page(s) of this post? Posted by shadowcharlie on May 8th, 2001 01:48 AM: safest taunt? rugals? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on May 8th, 2001 03:44 AM: Sho2: Ask either mummy-B or Hoe muffin for Iori strats i believe they had some. The only strat i know is his bitch cross up short the one where you can chose which direction for it to hit Posted by GemInite on May 8th, 2001 05:31 PM: Ack this forum is on page 3, lets bring it back to the top Posted by Hoe Muffin on May 8th, 2001 08:07 PM: My Iori game, unfortunately, has not progressed much. I play a decent Iori, but I'm not really as confident with him as I am with Terry or Kim. Unfortunately, Iori is nowhere near the terror he was in his KOF incarnations. Still, here are some general pointers: [*] Never ever EVER EVER play him in Capcom mode. He should always be in SNK mode, thanks to the now infamous Iori trap. 8 Wine Cups is pretty darned useless when it's not at level 3, and Maiden Masher is just a great super to have around when you're almost dead. Of course, it would be great if you weren't dead, but what can you do? [*] Learn the range of his sweep, and use it at it's maximum distance, or you're going to die. [*] His fierces are probably his best normals, poke with them, combo into his deadly flower. They are his space controllers, along with his standing roundhouse. Iori's crossover short, c. fierce xx qcb fierce, qcb fierce, qcb fierce HURTS. If you can't get that combo down, then Iori loses a lot of his damage potential, unfortunately. [*] If Deadly FLower is blocked, do NOT use the third hit. Lots of lag before and after. [*] Dark Thrust is an OK psychic DP, but I hate it as an anti-air, it has some really weird hit boxes and it doesn't have great priority at startup. I like Kyo's better. That's my biggest beef with Iori, he doesn't have a REALLY reliable anti-air. [*] His ground fireballs are OK every now and then, but remember, they aren't sonic booms, lots of delays, so throw them out ONLY when you know its safe, which won't be often. [*] Learn to use Scum gale (HCB+F) effectively, it's a pathetically easy way to land a maiden masher (they roll, scum gale, maiden masher), or his Deadly Flower combo... it takes people by suprise, but I wouldn't abuse it. PSX2000's Iori strat guide is here: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...Iori#post168802 __________________ The Queen is back! Long live the Queen! Soil qui mal y pense. Posted by peetah on May 8th, 2001 11:26 PM: I'd like to see higher levels of Iori game play too... but here's what I think about him... cr.RH: don't use it AT ALL... its not worth it... crossover kick: overrated... easy to block unless your opponent hasn't seen it before... and people who usually use it jump TOO FAR behind the guy... I know its got good range and all... but the further behind the guy you go, the more obvious it is what you're planning to do... Eight wine cups/SNK mode abuse: I don't it works anymore... against people who's only seen it a few times before, maybe it'll work... but you can't do anything against a turtler... the time:chip damage ratio is way too low since you have to charge up... and you're low enough on life as it is... BUT having said that... I've been thinking of an alternative way of abusing it... level 3 version does 8 hits... standard Iori combo j.FP, cr.FP, QCB+FPx3... does 5 hits... it takes 11 fierce hits to guard break in CvS... are you thinking what I'm thinking? cancel a cr.fierce into the super, and make him block all 8 columns... follow the guy up with QCB+P, and make sure he guard breaks before the 8th column hits... then its FREE DAMAGE! And on another note... if you ARE using the first abuse and you manage to connect... I find its sometimes better to charge up till you have a fraction more to go, and cr.fierce into level 1 maiden masher instead... level 1 ends up by exploding the guy a good distance away from you, and you only need to charge up a fraction more before you can set up the trap again... the problem with using level 3 maiden masher is provided that it doesn't kill them... you'd spend the rest of your match running and charging... and more often than not you get killed in the process... scum gale: WAY underrated... you see how people always keep a distance from Zangief? Why? they don't wanna get SPD'd... but scum gale, cr.fierce, QCB+FPx3 does almost as much damage... granted that the range of it is significantly less than gief but you gotta remember iori is a whole lot more mobile... and if we're talking about chaining it to maiden masher... we're looking at a VERY damaging throw... Posted by Mummy-B on May 9th, 2001 04:14 AM: well poop, you guys beat me to it ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Sho 2 on May 9th, 2001 05:11 AM: This is more than I needed but thank you very much . I just kind of wish he was better in Capcom . He probably would be if they left anti-air proirity of Maiden Masher and the Scum Gale's motion (hcf to Hcb,F) and the fact that it use to combo. I kinda of stopped use Snk ever since we unlocked Nak (damn bird/knife/her). So, i was just wondering: What are your thoughts on using Snk in good comp/tournaments and what team can I use Iori on? Posted by GemInite on May 9th, 2001 02:21 PM: Sho2 I used SNK groove at the last tourney here and won with guile/ honda. I would suggest ryu/iori. I find ryu to be just as effective in SNK groove Posted by Mummy-B on May 9th, 2001 04:04 PM: Iori on SNK works well with Guile, or King/EX Yuri IMO. Guile naturally is a solid character and can easily abuse SNK Groove just as he is effective in Capcom. Same with King and EX Yuri. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by VruS on May 10th, 2001 12:53 AM: bah iori on a max damage arcade is just plain ABUSIVE Posted by puzzlefite on May 10th, 2001 01:33 AM: Help Hey I'm also a Honda user. Geminite, since you won a tourney with Honda and Guile, tell me wut Honda does against Dhalsim. He doesn't have really any good limb counters. I believe the normal headbutt is too slow and you usually get hit. The vertical headbutt doesn't hit on the way up and Dhalsim hits you on the way down. His jump is too slow. I suppose all you can do is roll? His roll is too short to get him near enough for an attack. Hmm...help me out! Thanks. Posted by Mummy-B on May 10th, 2001 03:54 AM: Well, I'm not a Honda player but I know this for a fact: Dhalsim's game is based on range. Get up in his face and his game tremendously decreases. Play *hardcore* pressure and most Dhalsims can't handle it, especially with Honda and this 360 throw, Vertical drop, etc etc. If you stay at a distance, most Dhalsims will own you. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 10th, 2001 05:15 PM: Puzzle: Mummy is right try to stay close to sim the easiest way to advance to him is use a Fierce headbutt after a missed limb that will bring you right in front of him. LK Butt drop hits both up and down and usually stops his limbs when at close range. Posted by GemInite on May 10th, 2001 05:17 PM: Puzzle: Use low Roundhouse as a trip, once sim is tripped trap him with non stop Roundhouse butt drops, the cross overs will mess him up and if timed properly he wont be able to anti air it since you are performing on meaty. Posted by jchensor on May 10th, 2001 05:18 PM: Honda attacks Dhalsim by Rolling. If you can find your well-placed Rolls, Dhalsim can do very little about it. And remember: the Butt Drop DOES hit on it's way up if you use the Short version. But it can be high blocked an punished if you do that version. But if you think the enemy is going to try duck the Roundhouse version and try to hit you on your way down, do the Short version. It'll still go over crouching people and drop down on them much quicker. But just do not forget the Roll. Honda's roll is kep to his approach. Roll and come out with Fierce Head Butts or Roundhouse Butt Drops. Or just Roll a few times in a row (once you scare 'Sim into not doing anything after a Roll)until you get in close. It's still tough to approach a good Dhalsim, granted, but this should help a little. - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by GemInite on May 10th, 2001 09:07 PM: Jchen: Umm I dunno about that non stop rolling with honda against sim. I find sims low fierce XX yoga fire or his ground super to stop all roll crazy people pretty easily thats why against sim, with honda I take to the air from short range. Posted by puzzlefite on May 11th, 2001 01:01 AM: Thanks for the advice I'm pretty good at using specials with E. Honda, but I have problems with pressure tactics. What normal attacks do I use with E. Honda? I tend to go with ducking shorts and ducking jabs then roll in and try to butt slam them, but against this one Dhalsim player he just blocks and anticipates the roll so he'll throw me before i recover. Well I guess it's all about the mind games. I'm thinking of ditching normal mode for the double hit air head slam, but the butt slam has done such great damage and can't be tech hitted. Thanks for the advice again. Posted by GemInite on May 11th, 2001 01:24 AM: Puzzle: Read pages 4 and 5 of this forum, i posted many strats for honda here. Posted by Mummy-B on May 12th, 2001 12:33 PM: geez, page 3. yeah, *BUMP* __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by VruS on May 12th, 2001 01:06 PM: well I might as well start something new. I need to know how to play nakoruru well. It's gotten to a point that my friends won't even play me anymore if I choose guile. They can take on nak. So how do I make them scared of nak? Posted by Mummy-B on May 12th, 2001 03:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by VruS well I might as well start something new. I need to know how to play nakoruru well. It's gotten to a point that my friends won't even play me anymore if I choose guile. They can take on nak. So how do I make them scared of nak? They aren't scared of Nak already to begin with? What the hell is thier problem, they obviously don't play CvS enough ^_^ Okay, well, just go offensive on them. Dish out her bread and butter combo on them a few times (cross up j.lk -> c.lp x3 -> standing fierce punch XX Anna Matsube [the ground slide]) and I am sure they will be afraid. When you start building up your Capcom meter (oh did I mention use Capcom Groove), do the same combo in the corner and buffer a Level 3 Bird Super at the end of the combo. That'll get thier attention. Then just start mind games. Make them hate that damn bird. And make them hate when you hop on that damn bird too. Alternate hopping on it and dive slashing/hopping on it sending and flaming bird. Then just send a flaming bird. Annoying. Use that really, really, REALLY annoying pressure tactic of walking up, jab, step, jab, step, jab, step, jab etc etc. You'll be surprise how long they sit there and get pissed off before they realize they should do something about it. And then laugh as they try to sweep you and you hit them out of it. Then walk up and throw them. Annoying. Since she's a great battery character, pair her up with say... Ryu. And leave the Capcom Meter on full when he comes out second. Then they fear a Shin Shoryuken the whole match. It's like a psychological advantage. That's how I think you'd get them to be afraid of her. ... You could also start chanting endlessly "You're going to die" whenever you pick her, but then that would make them afraid of you, not her.... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on May 12th, 2001 03:52 PM: Oh yeah, and make sure you note to them that, she has a bird AND a sword. The only people who logically stand a chance are Balrog with a Claw and Yamazaki with a switchblade in his pocket. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by joni blazini on May 13th, 2001 01:13 AM: HELP. big up to all the experts for their help. I have a problem, everytime i try to conect normals to supers, i'll get a special move. eg.for ken: sweep XXlvl3superhurricane kick ALWAYS comes out as sweep to hurricane kick.Also standing HP XXany super w/ken NEVER COMES OUT. This is by far the weakest aspect of my game I need some suggestions as to how i can pull these off properly. thanx in advance. Posted by Supergeek on May 13th, 2001 01:49 AM: Re: HELP. quote: Originally posted by joni blazini big up to all the experts for their help. I have a problem, everytime i try to conect normals to supers, i'll get a special move. eg.for ken: sweep XXlvl3superhurricane kick ALWAYS comes out as sweep to hurricane kick.Also standing HP XXany super w/ken NEVER COMES OUT. This is by far the weakest aspect of my game I need some suggestions as to how i can pull these off properly. thanx in advance. First off, you can't sweep into Shinpuu Jinrai Kyaku (impossible, you need to do the extended kick) also, I don't think you can link his supers from a standing Fierce either. The only way you can link in Ken's supers are Jab Shoryuken XX Lvl 1 Shoryureppa or Sweep XX Shoryureppa __________________ I love you Ashley, and you have a special place in my heart and soul. -_^ Have the hindsight to know where you've been, the foresight to know where you're going and the insight to know that you've gone too far. Posted by VruS on May 13th, 2001 02:00 AM: It is possible to link the qcbx2 k super from a sweep, just nearly impoosible. Just ask sf2_freak. Look at his combo vid. He's just not human =] . THanks for the nak tips. Any other thing I should be aware of? And by the way in this area nobody ever hears of top tier. If somebody does something annoying and abusive, everybody tends to copy you. Those scrub bastards think they can use my ex vice, hahahahahahaha. *watches future guile and nak scrubs. I just started the beginning of the end =]. and about that "your going to die" thing, I'm gonna try that with my guile =] Posted by Kei on May 13th, 2001 02:59 AM: i didn't read all that so i don't know if i'm copying somebody elses tactics. but i'll put my scrub tactics in. i have trouble comboing so most of the time i have to resort to other tactics. sometimes strange ones. but i would think that any expert would know all that i do and then whup me. cross-ups: i like using them. sometimes i will do a cross-up and then jump behind them again and do another crossup followed by a combo to do some extra damage and keep a safe distance after all of that. sometimes the person i play thinks i'll follow up w/ a combo even if i connect the cross-up and wait for my combo only to be crossed-up again. GUILE's f+short: i use this move a lot. it's quick and recovers quickly if it connects/blocked. i'll do 2-3 times in a row even if it does/doesn't connect especially in the corner. SAKURA f+short, "hurricane super": well, if they aren't quick, but know about overheads they will block high and the super hits them low right after. if they don't block the overhead they will get hit, supposedly "get smarter", and block high for my super. the overhead is not comboable and sometimes pressures the opponent to foolishly/angrily retaliate after the overhead hits and then i can follow up w/ her hurricane super that will cancel their "counter." BENIMARU: qcf+jab. this move is quick and has more range than most sweeps. i do this move 1 after another sometimes. SNK RYU/SAKURA/BENIMARU: super fireball however many times whenever you get them in the corner. sometimes they don't expect the 2nd one. it can be hard to get out of it. if they jump, they could get hit easily, and when they learn they will want to roll and then you can throw or wait for them to just get out of the roll to combo them. ryu's super fireball is dangerous. i will wait a few seconds so their timing will be off after a few super fireballs. my most used tactic... crouch near opponent when they are on the ground: i think this good against the shoto's and all the other anti-air characters. some players will do their dragon punchish specials/supers and then you combo or throw when they are recovering from their missed counters. other ways i use this is by crouch jabbing over their fallen bodies however many times right before they get up making you look like you are vulnerable to wake ups and pressuring them to counter you. after a while the opponent will learn that you are waiting for them to do missed supers so they will try something less risky,sit and block, and that's when you throw them! hahaha! i guess that last tactic is more general and can be used in just about any capcom 2d fighter... i got some more tactics that i'm too lazy to type... Posted by Pat the Great on May 13th, 2001 04:11 AM: hey all, I'm a relative newbie (playing fighters for a long time but nothing too hard core) to CvS - play it about once a week for an hour or so at the local pizza place. I'm generally used to shotos (can't really use charge characters effectively, though I'm OK with Washizuka in LB2...) but I haven't memorized any fat list o' combos or any of that stuff... Recently I've been using SNK Groove Ken/King/Yuri for CvS. I haven't had the chance to experiment much (I generally stick to a ratio 2 shoto, thinking about switching to Ryu after watching the shin-sho in action). Any tips on improving? Another question I had was re: EX characters vs. normal characters. All I can tell is that their movelists are different but are the characters radically different? I must say, I'm getting used to SNK style characters (since I don't have CvS at home I play a lot of KoF '98). What's the difference between Kyo and EX Kyo? He's my favorite KoF character but he seems to have been taken down a notch or two in CvS because I always get nailed when I use him... __________________ -Pat the Great http://www.projectaku.cjb.net http://www.MacGamer.com Posted by Mummy-B on May 13th, 2001 06:35 AM: Geez, my next message posted twice. I wonder why... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on May 13th, 2001 06:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Pat the Great hey all, I'm a relative newbie (playing fighters for a long time but nothing too hard core) to CvS - play it about once a week for an hour or so at the local pizza place. I'm generally used to shotos (can't really use charge characters effectively, though I'm OK with Washizuka in LB2...) but I haven't memorized any fat list o' combos or any of that stuff... Recently I've been using SNK Groove Ken/King/Yuri for CvS. I haven't had the chance to experiment much (I generally stick to a ratio 2 shoto, thinking about switching to Ryu after watching the shin-sho in action). Any tips on improving? Another question I had was re: EX characters vs. normal characters. All I can tell is that their movelists are different but are the characters radically different? I must say, I'm getting used to SNK style characters (since I don't have CvS at home I play a lot of KoF '98). What's the difference between Kyo and EX Kyo? He's my favorite KoF character but he seems to have been taken down a notch or two in CvS because I always get nailed when I use him... Okay, just to let you know about the Shotos, especially normal Ryu and Ken in general, they are essentially optimized in Capcom Groove. Why? Well, Alot of Ken's combos revolve around Shoryureppa (qcf qcf + p)and they are relatively quick, hard hitting combos. The surprise factor plays a role in this, and also with Ken, it's very hard to charge up and prepare for a combo because now they know it's coming. In Capcom Groove, you have a meter but can use it anytime you want, and most of the time you don't need to use the meter more than twice a round. With Ryu, Capcom Groove is just plain scary. When he hits Level 3, you fear that Shin Shoryuken connecting with you, and it can be done anytime. In SNK Groove, you first have to be critical, then power up, and then they know what you're planning to do. King is very flexible, I think she works well in SNK or Capcom Groove. King plays kinda like a... Distorted Shoto, IMO. Then again, she has alot of things that make her different from Shoto style playing as well. She is one of the most versatile Ratio 1's and can adapt very well to most situations and characters, so she is actually one of the hardest to master. I personally think she is the most balanced Ratio 1 character. I think her best moves are her Double Strike (qcf qcf + k), Tornado Kick (qcb + k), her sliding kick (foward/down + fierce kick), and Silent Flash Super (qcb qcb + k). She can apply alot of pressure with these moves, and Silent Flash can be comboed into itself - do a Level 1 Silent Flash and you can catch them with another Level 1 Silent Flash before they touch the ground. I personally prefer her in SNK Groove - I play her with EX Yamazaki. Yuri on the other hand, I would suggest switching to EX Yuri. EX loses the Uppercut that normal Yuri has, but she gains range on her fireballs. Her Raioken (qcf + k) in EX mode is just awesome and there is a trap based on it because her recovery from it is almost inhuman. Also, her normal fireball gains range like a Hadoken, which is really good for poking at a distance and also for control. Additionally, her Uppercut Super is replaced by a Kick Super (f,b,f,hcb + k)which is awesome. It has really good invincibility even at Level 1 and has really good priority, and catches limbs like it isn't funny. I can do it consistently as a reversal as soon as she gets up to counter meaty attacks. EX Yuri is best used in SNK Groove IMO because you can totally abuse her two Desperations (the Haoh Shokoken, the big fireball and the Kick Super). When I get in critical with her, I either kick the crap out of someone who is offensive, or they back off if they know how I play. Ummm, Kyo and EX Kyo. Well, alot of people think Kyo sucks, but he is actually really really powerful, he's just really hard to master. I can master him, I don't even try, it's beyond my ability. Regular Kyo can combo like hell if you know how to do it. EX Kyo on the other hand, plays like Kyo from KOF 94/95 - he has the long range ground fireball, has the R.E.D. Kick replaced with the Triple Air Kick, and gains the double jump kick (qcf + k), but loses one Desperation (the qcf qcf + p one). EX Kyo also combos like hell. But, I believe they because of the radical differences in thier movesets, Kyo and EX Kyo have almost completely different games. EX Kyo can play the distance game as well as combo, Kyo is up-close and personal and does the combo game. If you're more comfortable with a Shoto-style of play I suggest EX Kyo. As for normal and EX characters, most of them are much different because of the change in movesets. Like Kyo, they have two different games. Yuri I think is much better in EX mode with the changes, while EX Cammy sucks hardcore when she loses Spiral Arrow. EX Yamazaki and Yamazaki however, play essentially the same game and have essentially the same moves almost (with the exception of the command throw and Sand Kick)but have different joystick motions for Supers. It really depends on who you're using in normal or EX. Hope I helped some. You guys here fill in on stuff I missed and what guys think, all of you have good things to say. ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by joni blazini on May 13th, 2001 06:46 AM: thanks for the feedback vrus. but ive seen it done by this one guy at my arcade-over,and over and over- and its just something i wanna learn the timing for. btw who is this guy you're refering to. do you think he may be able to help me with the timing? thanx again. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 13th, 2001 09:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite GUile: This is just my Opinion, but you might want to use Chuns supers more. Her super fireball has vaccum priority plus its like sim where as long as one hit connects you are guaranteed they wont bounce away hey GemInite this is Greg from VA. you know that I agree with you about using Chun Li's supers. Anyone who thinks Chun Li is a battery character doesn't know how to use her properly. Chun Li with a capcom mode lvl3 super is a VERY dangerous character. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 13th, 2001 10:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by Redcoldfire hy peoples i was wondering which grove most of you guyes preferred capcom or snk as for me cant decide which one i should use mah team: chun li cammy king Sorry this reply is so late but I just registered on Shoryuken yesterday I hope you read it. Definitely capcom groove. I personally use Chunny and King on one of my top teams. I used them both to come 2nd in a Toronto CVS tourney. I've improved a lot with them since the tournament. If you would like to learn some of my strategies let me know on this thread. First of all cammy's lvl1 super is relatively useless, no priority. also as gemInite stated she should be played agressively not charging SNK supers. She builds capcom supers easily with her cannon drills. IMO cammy is a great battery character and should be first in your team. once cammy's down for the count you should have supers for the almighty Chun Li! not many people seem to use her I'm glad you do. i'm not sure of your strategies with Chunny but her Senretsu Kyaku ( lvl 2 or 3 ) is one of the best wake up supers of any character because she has no recovery if blocked. Also ryu yes RYU must be very careful of a turtling chun li. As I use her Senretsu Kyaku to punish high/low fireball chipping combos, rolls, and a lvl2 or 3 kikou shou to suck him down from the sky! They are both unreliable supers as a lvl 1 ( i.e. SNK groove ). Chun Li should be busy playing mind games with her opponent not charging supers! The charging time takes away from her best advantage namely her foot/dashing speed. As others have pointed out that you can connect any lvl 1 super after her SNK lvl 3. , this IMO is just eye candy. If you connect a lvl 3 senretsu kyaku then a tenshou kyaku the opponents character is already toast as it is extremely damaging as far as ratio 2 characters lvl 3's go. The key is to have that lvl 3 ( charged up by cammy ) at your disposal at ANY time and not when you are just in red SNK life. Players also don't fear chun li as much when she is walking around, thinking of her as a 'charge' character. this is where a lvl 3 kikou shou punishes ANY jump in attempt. Again her SNK lvl 1 super is just not of much us. In order to not trade or get plain knocked out of her level 1 Kikou Shou you have to do it soooo early that it does little damage as the opponent tends to bounce off of the lvl 1. If you do use SNK chun li ( not advisable ) use her hazan tenshou kyaku lvl 1 super to punish jumpers. not as useful as people don't jump on a charged chunner as much as a walking chunner. Finally if you have chun li with 2 or 3 capcom supers you are able to punish mistakes with many different super combos not available with only lvl 1 supers. Also while you are waiting for the opponent to make a mistake the charged lvl 3 super is great for the added power bonus make chun li's normals and throws do significant damage! If you play a turtle game chun li has a problem charging up supers as none of her specials are safe super chargers. so in capcom groove you have to use her speed to help you charge supers. I'm not sure if you are aware that making the opponent block fierce attacks will charge your meter like crazy! so dash in crouching punch followed by a donkey kick is a great super builder! ( a lot of opponents try to hit you after the crouching fierce but the donkey kick will hit them first if they are not blocking ), a blocked cross over combo is also a great super builder (j.short,c.jab,c.jab, c. fierce, kikou ken), beware rushing supers if you add in the kikou ken! your last character king is also suited to capcom groove IMO. As gemImite mentioned she is a pressure character. A friend of mine 'Cam' and I both use normal King and she should basically always have a lvl 1 super charged if you play her the way she was meant to be played. Having this super available on call is the key to a dominant King. As you can link it to any sucessful sweep,corner punch throw. use it as a great wake up super. or just punish a jump in. so King with capcom supers is very well defended. SNK king while extremely dangerous when in the red, is also nearly dead. So obviously the order I would use if I was using your team would be cammy , chun li , king. cammy to build supers for chun li as chun li must be agressive to build them by herself. chunny to wipe out a character with a well timed lvl 3, and king to clean up what's left as she has no problem building supers on her own. Even though she is a ratio 1 character she is well rounded enough to anchor a team as the only characters my king has problems with are EX bison, nak, terry, and chun li! but I wouldn't use king against them anyways. to repeat myself, if anyone wants to know my strategies with Chunner i.e. combos, mind games, vs. character strategies,let me know on this thread. I hope GemInite reads this as he can hopefully tell you that i'm pretty good with my chun li, ( do I see honda cringing? hehehe ) Posted by Chunnnerv on May 13th, 2001 11:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Oh and about chunli. I know shes damn sick only one person plays her good here. I hate her damn spinning bird kick priority crap. Her jumping short beats like everything hey GemInite I assume you mean me about chun li. If so thanks for the kudos. I see you posting strats on normal honda. To all you other honda players, this guy knows what he is talking about as he plays at the same arcades as I do and I've seen him rape some good players with his Honda. IMO normal is much better than EX for the mind games Geminite is able to incorporate into his strategy. about your ratio 2 ranking, Chun Li sixth!! come on, you've got to be kidding me. She's great against Guile, Honda, both terry's, all ratio 3's and 1's , holds her own against nak, her only real problem is a good ryu/ken. Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 01:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by Chunnnerv about your ratio 2 ranking, Chun Li sixth I did the ranking system based on how often a character is used in general and their effect. Chun li does deserve a higher ranking 1on1 thugh Posted by Chunnnerv on May 13th, 2001 01:15 PM: sorry for all the posts but i'm new to Shoryuken and just finished scanning this forum.I hope ThisGuileKillYa that your favorite character is still Chun Li because people just have to respect the ORIGINAL female fighter. I see my friend GemInite has given some advice on Chunner combos. I would like to add my own two cents so bear with me. First of all her best cross up combo is: j.short, c.jab, c.jab, rh. tenshou kyaku ( easier to link a second c. jab than a c. short ) Despite what you may think this CROSSUP combo works against every character EXCEPT Chunner herself and bison, even little Nak. It also works against medium ( ryu ) and large characters from the front. As an added bonus if the combo happens to be from the proper range you can link supers after it. The secret is to watch when Chunner lands in respects to the falling opponent. When the rising kick is not deep, Chunny will land first! make sure you charge as soon as you perform the tenshou kyaku. Then as soon as Chunny touches the ground you can surprise your opponent with a juggle lvl 1/2/3 hazan tenshou kyaku! sweet looking! or if your not good at the super motion, you can substitute the hazan with a lvl 3 kikou shou. NOTE: only the level 3 will connect not 1 or 2. I haven't seen anybody post this combo or in any of the wonderful videos on shoryuken, if so sorry. perhaps an even better use for this combo is when you are turtling. Most players won't jump on Chunner when she is charged and will roll instead. Characters such as king, Zangief, yamazaki etc... like to roll in. So as they come out of a roll.. c. jab, c.jab, rh. tenshou kyaku, and the super of your choice, as described above. Again this combo only works on medium height characters as it is not deep like a cross up. ( will work on some ratio 1's, king, vice etc....). Posted by Chunnnerv on May 13th, 2001 02:24 PM: Damn computer crashed on me so i'll have to type this part out again. So now that you have knocked them down with your combo, what can you do ? 1. walk up to them and close FP meaty attack. They have to time any wake up move perfectly to hit you out of this meaty attack as it has many frames of animation and high priority. Whether it hits or not Immediately perform a df. roundhouse ( donkey kick ). although this isn't a combo I have never been hit between the fierce and the donkey kick. If they block both you have just charged half a super. If they get knocked down by the kick. you have the same option again! 2. If your opponent's character doesn't have a great wake up move i.e. DP. take a couple of steps back and cross up jump combo them again. Chances are that they will block the combo this time, but it doesn't matter as you keep building supers and you still are pressuring your opponent. 3. normal jump over the fallen opponent ( the combo leaves you at the perfect distance to normal jump over )and as they get up flip kick back over to your original side! hopefully they get their blocking wrong as they must change their blocking direction twice as well as block it high. If they get hit by the flip kick you have 2 options. i) immediately perform a rh. tenshou kyaku ii) if you have a level 3 super stored, IMMEDIATELY do a lvl 3 kikou shou ( NOTE: only lvl 3 will connect ) 4. jump over the fallen opponent and ram on the rh. button. like blanka's electricity, Chunner can go right into her lighting kick as she touches the ground. Hopefully the opponent tries to tick/throw you as you land because they won't see the lighting kick come out before they get up. you can ram on both kick buttons if you want, but here is why I use the RH. If you have a level 2 or 3 super the RH. lighting kick guarantees at least three hits, somtimes four. This gives you enough time to charge the cross-up senretsu kyaku super. As soon as the 3rd ( thin characters ) or 4th ( wide characters ) lighting kick hits cancel it into your level 2/3 senretsu kyaku. This is a great surprise tactic on unwary opponents. Be sure to charge for the super as soon as you leave the ground on the cross-up lighting kick. got to go for now more to come later Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 05:41 PM: chunnnery: I'll stick to my guile vs your chun-li. Honda does limited damage. I can beat bison with honda now though keke. Posted by Urotsukidoji on May 13th, 2001 06:32 PM: Hey Chunnerv, that's some good stuff you wrote about Chun. I had one question, though. Is there ANY use for the heel press(d+hk in air)? Just seems like it leaves you wide open. Thanks. Posted by VruS on May 13th, 2001 09:33 PM: well I played for the 2nd time in a long time at the arcades today. being the damn game on max damage = luck. No fucking chance to retaliate on any level of supers. That and fuck snk iori. That and I wish I played with more stick and pad. Fuck arcade sticks. That and my skills blow at arcades. Fuck that arcade manager too. Whoever the hell he is. I am seriously going to learn nakoruru and blow everybody there away. Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 09:53 PM: Vrus: perhaps you were just having a bad day. but yes high damage SUCKS. On max damage one level 3 blanka super will leave a ratio 1 with 1 pixel of power left. All he does is roll on meaty and you are dead. Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 09:54 PM: chunnnery: On a side note this is the only forum i really post in, I dont post in the Toronto forum anymore cuz i cant stand marvin aka. c-royd Posted by shadowcharlie on May 13th, 2001 10:31 PM: sagat...... just found out that you can not be jabed out of tiger raid and just wanted to post it here. also wanted to know if sagate jupin wk,closehp~hightiger shot still works. cuase it doesnt seem to __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by SUSHI X on May 13th, 2001 10:35 PM: Can anybody give me some good strats against EX-Balrog, I have the hardest time trying to beat him and my team is King, Blanka,EX-Vice,EX-Dhalsim. Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 11:09 PM: Sushi X: Can you be a little more specific about what you seem to have problems with? As in what strats does the Ex-Balrog player use? Posted by SUSHI X on May 13th, 2001 11:44 PM: I need tips on how to beat him with my team. Posted by GemInite on May 13th, 2001 11:51 PM: sushi: errr what tactics does he use? cross ups? are you having problems getting near him? Posted by SUSHI X on May 14th, 2001 12:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite sushi: errr what tactics does he use? cross ups? are you having problems getting near him? Have you ever played a good Balrog player? Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 12:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Urotsukidoji Hey Chunnerv, that's some good stuff you wrote about Chun. I had one question, though. Is there ANY use for the heel press(d+hk in air)? Just seems like it leaves you wide open. Thanks. I agree that the heel press is not a very useful move for Chunner in CVS ( great in A3 ) I tend to avoid it like the plague since the damage it inflicts isn't worth the price you pay when someone counters you i.e. long range normals like yamazaki's standing RH., jumping attacks or specials like Nak's slide. The only time I would consider using it, is if your opponent is backed into a corner or the ensuing bounce will allow you to triangle jump off the wall, since you will bounce back to your original side and can stop any retaliation by changing the heel press into the dreaded flying jab kick. Also if the chump tries to jump after you hit him/her? with any super you desire as you are able to charge while bouncing back. If you don't have supers charged, still charge back, if they jump use a short spinning bird kick to take them out of the air. Be sure to start the move while the opponent's character is still well in the air as the moves invincible frames also act as start up time and you don't want to them to land and block the move. If you time the bird kick properly they will always eat it. If they roll instead just donkey kick or crouching fierce their butt. there is one use for using the heel press against wide tall characters gief, raiden etc... as seen in the wild video posted in the multimedia section. If you aim the move at a big characters feet she will in fact bounce forward instead of backwards! so you can cancel the press into a j. short or j. RH., then land and perform a combo. While this technique is really impresive to see it is not very practical since the opponent is not going to stand still, so you can position your jumping heel press properly. If they move toward you, you'll bounce on top of their head and of course pay for it. that's all I can say about the heel press for now as I haven't experimented with it. But since you asked I will see if I can incorporate it into my mind games strategy! thanks for the question as you are the first, and hopefully not the last as i'm posting this info to get as many Chunner worshipers out there as possible. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 12:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite chunnnery: On a side note this is the only forum i really post in, I dont post in the Toronto forum anymore cuz i cant stand marvin aka. c-royd I was wondering what happened to your massive amounts of posts it just happened I was scanning through this thread. Sure i'm up to the challege of Guile Vs. Chun Li. next time I see you at orbits or VA lets have pair match Double Guile vs. double Chunner and see who wins 3/5. what do you say ? If you would like to discuss how you counter Chunny, I'll let you start! Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 12:41 AM: sushi: The good balrog players here just play non stop attacks. e.g. roll/double roll, crouching shorts into his special punch whatever. Is that what you are having problems with? pressure? Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 12:43 AM: Chunner: Well if you noticed the last time i played your chun I was using ex-king and im pretty sure time ran out. None of us would dare take to the air. I play against your chun different than i would others Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 12:47 AM: chunner: Oh on another note my stupid ISP for wahtever reason wont let me post like 4-5 lines at a time thats why you'll always see multiple posts from me in a row Posted by SUSHI X on May 14th, 2001 12:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite sushi: The good balrog players here just play non stop attacks. e.g. roll/double roll, crouching shorts into his special punch whatever. Is that what you are having problems with? pressure? Yeah thats it, I just could'nt think of word for it. Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 12:53 AM: sushi: well i guess what i would do is with either king or vice use jumping shorts a lot because they have more priority than balrogs moves. YOur b est option is vice and just use her bread and butter combos. cLp, cLp, cLK, qcb+p, DP +K Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 12:55 AM: sushi: if he blocks the jumping short nail bomb him. Or super him with the qcb+K x 2. roll into the super that will catch him off guard. WHat i find the best tactic is to roll at the same time he does cuz it messes up his charge. Posted by SUSHI X on May 14th, 2001 12:58 AM: Thanx Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 01:03 AM: Sushi: oh and the obvious if he jumps at you cHP him Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 01:19 AM: To continue my WHY USE CHUN LI guide. another great combo chun li has in her arsenal is jumping fierce>donkey kick then juggle with a RH. tenshou kyaku! Learned this combo after reading James Chen's guide on the CVS game system. The key is focusing on the animation of the donkey kick. Just as she pulls her legs back from the successful donkey kick, bust out the tenshou kyaku! not only is this combo impressive looking, it HURTS. As explained by James Chen, some characters stay up longer after knock downs then others. So this combo is easier to perform on certain characters. The good news is that Ryu, Nak, Terry, Guile are all easily comboed i.e. top tiers characters! You have to really concentrate on the timing against ratio 1's as they do not stay aloft as long ( except 'sim is a sucker for it) also ratio 3's tend to land rather quickly, so practice the timing and remember to charge down as soon as you jump to ensure that you are charged. don't know if GemInite has seen this one yet as I haven't played him in a LONG time. now if you have supers stored, forget about the above combo and instead: j. fierce>donkey kick>2in1 kikou shou any lvl. high damaging combo and easy to perform as the kikou shou super motion won't do any unexpected moves as chun li has no special move that involves a fireball motion with kick. ( i.e. problems linking Ken lvl 3 properly ). have problems linking fireball super combos? no problem! you don't have to. just perform the j. fierce>donkey kick, then wait for her donkey kick animation to finish and bust a lvl 3 kikou shou a la King style. this works like King's leg sweep> double QCB kick juggle. so you are just exchanging the tenshou kyaku for the lvl 3 kikou shou in the first combo. NOTE must be a lvl3 kikou shou, unlike buffering the super where you can use lvl 1/2/3. the final super combo I use is the one probably everyone knows but if not: j. short>c. jab>c. jab>2in1 senretsu kyaku ( any level ) I don't add in the optional standing short as this adds the unwanted possiblity of a spinning bird kick rearing it's ugly head when you least want it. The 2 c. jabs allow you plenty of charging time for the super as long as you have the presence of mind to charge. Charging is the most important aspect of chun li's combos sorry i've drilled this in but you cannot play Chunner to her potential without being able to charge without thinking. This combo cannot be used if the j. short crosses up. but after the second c. jab you can link a crouching fierce as well ( timing is tight, practice ) this gives you enough charge time on the cross up to buffer in the Senretsu kyaku ( lvl 2/3 only as the fierce pushes the opponent back further ) This IMO is her most difficult combo but WooHoo is it purdy! Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 02:05 AM: Although Chunner is a great pressure character, what do you do when you just don't want someone near you i.e gief,honda,yama,etc.. that's the beauty of Chunny she is a great turtler as well as pressure character. My friend JayWang ( a good CVS player ) refers to my keep away tactics as active turtling so that's what i'll call it. a lot of people probably think that Chun Li's fireball is crap but the opposite is true. She has the best recovery after her fireball that I can remember and opponents have to almost psychic jump/roll to punish her. the key is her jab fireball. it is SLOW!! so slow that Chunner can follow after it with her quick footspeed and dashing ( her roll is too slow for this purpose ). from a distance i always use the jab version. If they haven't jumped or rolled through it yet, this is where you have the advantage dash/walk after the fireball and react to what the opponent does. 1. They jump i) Kikou shou ( preferably lvl 2/3) ii) if in the air far from you either s. fierce, s. RH, or donkey kick iii)if jumping close/cross-up s. RH, which is close version which is a great anti-air, or jump straight up and try an air throw or j.RH/j. short best of all is if you are able to walk right under them, then throw them or donkey kick>kikou shou combo them! 2. They roll i) if you know you are close enough to throw them before they come out of their roll, by all means do so ( IMO nothing is cheap ) good players will catch on to this and tech hit your throw attempt soooo..... ii)crouching fierce, followed by another c. fierce/donkey kick which they WILL have to block iii) donkey kick>kikou shou combo, ouch!hehehe 3. They just block i) jump back out of harms way and start again. ii) dash/dbl dash in to keep them in block stun with a c. fierce>donkey kick and watch that super meter grow yeehaa! time to either continue the pressure or jump back to safety to frustrate them some more! this method works wonderfully well against many of the slow footspeed characters, victims are Honda, gief, Yama, guile. if the opponent is using a character with high priority air to ground moves example: ryu/ken jumping jabs, vice j. short, kim's air special don't bother with this method unless you have at least one super to bust out a kikou shou. these characters air moves will stuff Chunny's normal anti-air moves most of the time or trade. The ground follow up tactics will work on any character that has a slow roll ( even Honda's short roll, beware of terry's/mai's roll ) Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 02:27 AM: chun: ha you defend chun li like i defend honda vs EX-Honda Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 03:35 AM: I sure hope somebody reads all of this. Oh gemInite the name should read Chunnerv why it got F__KED up I don't know. Now you don't feel like active turtling and just plain want to sit on your ass. this is how: preferably you are WINNING the fight or what the hell are you turtling for, get out there and make them fear your Chunny! also hopefully you have supers stored to punish agressive attackers but if not don't worry! 1. anti-air supreme = spinning bird kick if the opponent jumps in, beni drills in, kim air supers in,ryu/ken jumping jab in... you get the picture. Chun-supreme's SBK will beat ANY air move if timed correctly, if you don't believe me try for yourselves and be sick, waiting to test it out on the other annoying move in the game BUTT-SLAM! ( heeeyyy GemInite ) the other great aspect of this wonder-move? it beats so many traps as well such as. 1. guile's dreaded SNK groove infinite punch super? once the first one finishes do a SBK and if guile tries anything after his super... STUFFED! i.e. no throw, no 2nd super, no flash kick. Guile will learn quickly or eat foot! 2. Terry's crackshoot, because the SBK is a charge move it is not hard to time the crackshoot and knock cheapass down. EX Terry's PD? can be seen from a mile away so SBK. wasn't ready or charged for the first PD? no need to fear the possible 2nd PD, yup SBK. Now some pokes are just too fast to time the SBK ( although if timed correctly will will stuff these as well ) 1. Ryu's irritating hop kick - use Chunny's s. far RH. will stuff ryu before his kick gets you. also the s. far RH. is a great poke of your own, good range/recovery 2. Guile's infuriating hop kick - use Chunny's cr. fierce poor guile. 3. not charged for the SBK against terry's crackshoot - use Chunny's donkey kick, kiss floor sucker! 4. balrog (U.S.) and his pressure tactics hahaha!!! LIGHTING KICKS, ram on the short button and watch balrog's energy go bye-bye! the only charge move that can possibly get through is the straight punch, not the low rush or either of the kick ones, and the great thing is that even with the straight punch, it will very rarely get through and balrog will take a beating trying to get through just once. balrog trying to roll in or through to the other side, no chance, it's too short! if he jumps, you're charged for the SBK right? stop ramming and WHAM! SBK baby! then ram again. remember this is for turtling only. I don't recommend using this for most of your fight as it is no fun. but if you want to discourage people from using balrog chun li is your woman! Balrog's turn punch has a little better priority ( especially EX )and may get through, but it also has start up so as soon as you see the start up animation, stop and SBK or lvl2/3 senretsu kyaku. This works because Chunner can stop her lighting kicks almost instantly and the SBK or super come out extremely fast! ( remember you can combo the super after a deep lighting kicks ) the only time this method is suicide is if balrog has supers, duh!( even a lvl 1 beware ) maybe honda's hundred hand slap works the same way? don't know about the priority. Keep this a secret from Balrog players, but his standing fierce from 1/3 screen WILL beat the lighting kicks the majority of the time, so if you see Balrog walking toward you stop ramming and surprise him with something else. 5. the final poke character people fear is..... Nak! no really? a lot of characters get raped by Nak but chunner holds her own under pressure ( experience against JayWang ) Jay Wang told me some things but I can do against Nak but they are his to tell so sorry. I will tell you what I found out on my own though. Nak's dreaded cross-up - use close s. RH. if timed right Nak cannot use this mind game against Chunny. Nak user's do random rush attacks or dive attacks that you block but cannot retaliate i.e. distance control- like all characters throw her till she starts to tech hit. Once your opponent starts to tech hit. if you block a ground slide and should be charged donkey kick>tenshou kyaku (the 2xc. jab> tenshou kyaku will wiff, Nak is short you know. This is an easy combo on Nak because she stays in the air a long time after the donkey kick knocks her into the air. Or hopefully wait for the big one! donkey kick>wait to make sure Nak's being knocked down and lvl3 kikou shou! Nak stays up a long time and the lvl3 is fairly easy to time. well that's all i'm going to write about, as most Chun Li players know how to pressure well. I think I read one strategy on this thread about her flip kick pressure. but if anyone is having problems beating a specific character with Chunny i'm here to help, signing off Chun Li freak! Posted by Mummy-B on May 14th, 2001 03:36 AM: Chun Li... She is pretty strong, I don't know how to use her supers effectively, but she is pretty damn good. I don't use her hardly at all, and I was kicking some ass. When I play her, I find that Tenshou Kyaku is very Rising Tackle-ish, and since I am a regular Terry player I play Chun Li like a modified Terry. AB Roll, Tenshou Kyaku from behind, crouching foward, step foward, standing jab, crouching foward, AB roll Tenshou Kyaku is my usual pressure routine. I find that doing her flip kick over thier head and then doing Tenshou Kyaku is pretty solid, it usually always catches even when they block the flip kick for some reason. I use her in SNK Groove with EX Mai. It's my fun team because I think Mai and Chun are probably two of the most fun characters to use, and at the same time you can beat people's ass with them if they aren't careful. I call it my Crouching Female, Hidden Potential team. ... yes, me and my friends come up with really retarded, obscure names for all the teams of people we use. It makes it fun when we trash talk. "I'll use my Crouching Female, Hidden Potential team if you don't shut the hell up" - "Yeah well maybe I'll just use my Pimp and Hoe team, how about that?" etc. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on May 14th, 2001 03:41 AM: Oh I was wondering, aside from catching rollers, what is the best time to use Spinning Bird Kick? I don't really have any practical use for it when I use her... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 03:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Chun Li... She is pretty strong, I don't know how to use her supers effectively, but she is pretty damn good. I don't use her hardly at all, and I was kicking some ass. When I play her, I find that Tenshou Kyaku is very Rising Tackle-ish, and since I am a regular Terry player I play Chun Li like a modified Terry. AB Roll, Tenshou Kyaku from behind, crouching foward, step foward, standing jab, crouching foward, AB roll Tenshou Kyaku is my usual pressure routine. I find that doing her flip kick over thier head and then doing Tenshou Kyaku is pretty solid, it usually always catches even when they block the flip kick for some reason. I use her in SNK Groove with EX Mai. It's my fun team because I think Mai and Chun are probably two of the most fun characters to use, and at the same time you can beat people's ass with them if they aren't careful. I call it my Crouching Female, Hidden Potential team. hehe! nice name for your team, also nice pressure tactics with Chun Li but a little bit risky for my taste as Chunner's tenshou kyaku is not nearly as safe as terry's jab rising tackle. I think EX mai is also an under- appreciated character as well. ... yes, me and my friends come up with really retarded, obscure names for all the teams of people we use. It makes it fun when we trash talk. "I'll use my Crouching Female, Hidden Potential team if you don't shut the hell up" - "Yeah well maybe I'll just use my Pimp and Hoe team, how about that?" etc. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 14th, 2001 04:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Oh I was wondering, aside from catching rollers, what is the best time to use Spinning Bird Kick? I don't really have any practical use for it when I use her... Mummy-B please read my post on page 26. Posted by Mummy-B on May 14th, 2001 05:06 AM: Oh okay cool thanks. Oh by the way guys, if you ever wondered what the Intros and people say in CvS, I did a complete Japanese-Englsih Translation of all the Intros and All Character speeches in Gaming Discussion. Enjoy! __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Azrael-sama on May 14th, 2001 07:02 AM: Cool translation FAQ! Although, I like the various mistranslations. Guile's "French Barrel!", Nako's "My name is Kim!", and of course, Gief's "I am...insane!" -Az Posted by Tuff Daddy on May 14th, 2001 03:44 PM: Man does this thread need a -bump- or what? Anyway I have a question. About turtles. My friends are to the point where they just turtle when they play me. You know, they just sit there and wait for me to jump so they can uppercut, or wait for me to throw them and try to jab me. This is so annoying. I'm forced to chip them to death and try throwing the ENTIRE game. Any suggestions? Also Vice seems to be pretty good. Is there an easy way to connect her qcf,qcf + P super? I've been playing her for a few days and her qcb + k move is useful in the air. Normal or Ex? Thanks in advance. T. Diddy __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by GemInite on May 14th, 2001 04:08 PM: Tuff: EX-Vice is far superior cuz of her bread and butter combo of cLP, cLP, cLK, qcb+P, DP+K. Use her qcb x 2 + K super instead it doesnt miss if you are in the proper range. Posted by Vigorous on May 14th, 2001 08:22 PM: EX Kim is a character that gives me problems. With his bread and butter combo: short, jab, short, roundhouse, spinning air. Or substitute the spinning air with the crescent kick. And repeat like 10 times. How can I stop this excessive poking? Is there a window of opportunity of a counter? Should I be more aggressive or wait for a mistake? Posted by GemInite on May 15th, 2001 05:44 PM: just felt like bumping the forum back to page 1 Posted by Tuff Daddy on May 15th, 2001 07:32 PM: Yeah most definetly need a -bump- can anyone answer my post??? __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by Tuff Daddy on May 15th, 2001 08:10 PM: -bump- x2 Man only MVC2 lovers today. __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by GemInite on May 15th, 2001 08:11 PM: Tuff: Who are you using against these turtlers? and who do they use? Posted by Tuff Daddy on May 15th, 2001 08:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Tuff: Who are you using against these turtlers? and who do they use? OK I'm using, normal Vice, normal King, and normal Terry. The "turtle" is using normal Blanka, normal Yuri, and normal Ken. Annoying as hell. How can I get them to stop waiting to uppercut me without just walking up and throwing them. Its to the point where my pressure game is too much for him. __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by Jay Wang on May 15th, 2001 09:53 PM: tuff daddy: if walking up and throwing is working against the person ur playing, then don't stop using it! if it's not broken, don't fix it! for example, if you want to get better, u'll need to understand that sometimes u'll have to adjust ur gameplay to the different people that u play. u can't play robotically, and try to pressure EVERYONE that you play, nor can u just walk up and throw against everyone as well. usually against turtlers, after u get the first throw in, it's almost like a wake up call for them ... and they stop ... but in ur case, if u can just walk up and throw all day, than just keep doing it! __________________ - JayWang "winners throw, losers complain." #tosf on EFNET Posted by peetah on May 16th, 2001 12:10 AM: Tuff Daddy: Pick EX Terry. Cr.RH him until you push him back all the way up to the wall... if he tries to jump just DF.Fierce him back... once he's in the corner... use DP+light kick (must be light)... then... power dunk, power dunk, power dunk, power dunk, power dunk... you know what I'm getting at... it'll take him a while to figure out how to get out of it... but if he really is an defensive as you claim him to be... chances are he'll die by chip death... oh, and you know what to do when you get a guardbreak right? Posted by Mummy-B on May 16th, 2001 04:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by peetah Tuff Daddy: Pick EX Terry. Cr.RH him until you push him back all the way up to the wall... if he tries to jump just DF.Fierce him back... once he's in the corner... use DP+light kick (must be light)... then... power dunk, power dunk, power dunk, power dunk, power dunk... you know what I'm getting at... it'll take him a while to figure out how to get out of it... but if he really is an defensive as you claim him to be... chances are he'll die by chip death... oh, and you know what to do when you get a guardbreak right? You don't need to switch to EX Terry, normal Terry can be used just as effectively. First, if you're Power Dunking like a madman a)you're totally predictable and b)if he's not a total retard, he knows that Shoryuken outprioritizes Power Dunk and he can counter with Ken, Yuri's crouching fierce punch will trade with it (favorably to Terry however), and Blanka can do his air pimp slap (jump straight up and fierce punch)which will either stop it or trade when timed correctly. If he is a total retard, he will die to massive Power Dunking, however, I don't think his is the case, because at the least, he would learn to block the switching sides and then eventually learn to counter it sooner or later. Since your using normal Terry, he has a similar tactic as EX that I use. AB roll + Rising Tackle. It's just as effective for the purpose of pressure because it catches limbs, it's just as fast as Power Dunk on start up, it's a solid wake up, it hits people out of the air, and has the same recovery (maybe faster, not sure on that)as the lk Power Dunk, so essentially they both do all of the same things, they just do them slightly different. The advantage of Power Dunk is simply that you do it like a DP which allows you to do it quickly, where Rising Tackle is a charge move and takes time. However, I still prefer the Rising Tackle. Anyway, against a turtler. Blanka: Blanka is pretty damn good at turtling. When he does his rolling attack at you, a jab will stop it. Try not to jump too often at him, because I am pretty sure Blanka's jumping fierce punch will out prioritze most of Terry's air attacks. Now I will not be able to stress the importance of these two things with normal Terry and his offense - crouching fierce kick and lp Rising Tackle. Blanka's roll will go over a Power Wave, but you can be prepared for that - when you throw a Power Wae at him, immediately charge down while Terry is still in the animation for Power Wave. When the roll comes, just hit up and lp and he'll go into a Rising Tackle to counter it. The main thing though is to apply pressure. Dash in, crouching fierce kick, lk Crack Shoot, crouching fierce kick again, roll in twice and Rising Tackle. Watch how many times he'll try to hit you and get caught with one of those. When that gets predictable, mix up a throw into it, but it seems you already have that down. Always be ready for Blanka's sliding low fierce punch because it has mad range. Once again, a Rising Tackle takes care of it. Yuri: Okay well, I don't know why he's not using EX Yuri, but whatever. I don't think normal Yuri can turtle THAT effectively, but I know her crouching fierce punch will anti-air you like it ain't nobody's business. Use the same pressure series against Blanka. Always keep in mind that after a lk Crack Shoot, Terry can crouching fierce kick right after. You can basically own normal Yuri with Terry by pressuring the crap out of her because there's no way a normal Yuri can handle that kind of bombardment turtling. Ken: This one is a little bit harder. For Ken, you have to catch alot of limbs. More than likely, if you do that pressure series I gave with Blanka, he'll DP you out of it. This is where you start relying on AB roll + Rising Tackle. Learn to time your rolls right after another. One of the best times to catch Ken is after he throws a Hadoken - if he's too far to hit with a roll/Rising Tackle, a roll/crouching fierce kick does nicely in it's place. Now, when you roll in to get near him, he'll probably try to a)sweep you, b)DP you, or c)multiple crouching lk you into a sweep. Rising Tackle will beat every single one of them except the DP when timed correctly. What to do with the Shoryuken is, when you see it coming, do and extra roll. He'll DP, whiff, and be open for a crouching fierce kick or a Rising Tackle. Mix in a throw or two, poke alot with the crouching fierce kick and time your roll ins to Rising Tackle him. A good thing to keep in mind is that Terry's Power Geyser is a nice anti-air, provided you judge the distance correctly. At Level 2, Buster Wolf has an invincibility frame at start up that will pass through and catch just about anything. Oh and I agree with GemInite though, switch to EX Vice, she is way more solid, not just for the combo, but she is more solid character than normal Vice overall. Try her out and you'll quickly see it. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 16th, 2001 04:12 AM: Tuff: remember king and vice's jumping Short will beat almost all of blankas attacks so just jump right at him. Posted by jchensor on May 16th, 2001 07:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Tuff: remember king and vice's jumping Short will beat almost all of blankas attacks so just jump right at him. Careful. Good Blankas know to use Jump Straight up Fierce to beat most Jump Shorts. At owrst, it trades, and that's just not in Vice or King's favor. - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by frenchteam on May 16th, 2001 09:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Tuff: remember king and vice's jumping Short will beat almost all of blankas attacks so just jump right at him. quite funny . i'd like to play my Blanka against your Vice or King , even without jumping straight up , HP . Posted by Tuff Daddy on May 16th, 2001 02:03 PM: Wow you guys have been amazing help. This thread kicks ass. Mad props to GemInite, Jay Wang, peetah, Mummy-B (mad strats!), jchensor, and frenchteam for posting most excellent strats. Damn I love this site ! I'm gonna put these strats to use right away. Thanks again. -phat ass bump- __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by Treva on May 16th, 2001 02:20 PM: I like using EX Bison for his poking ability with his Standing Roundhouse, Crouching Jabs and his Skull Diver fake. Unless it's a shokotan or Guile or Terry, I can usually Head Stomp and fly away, even if bloked. I also like to toss LOTS to Jabs, regardless of height, and mix up the timing. People have yet to get used to my variety of C-Jab x3->Psycho Crusher combos. I mix up timing so my opponent thinks I mussed up and I can either go for the Crusher or Devil Press(That Vega-style move Bison has.) The Devil Press nails ANY turtler and lets me laugh at fireball traps(King, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, C.Y.A.). But I also mix his his Crossover Jumping Roundhouse which can double as a poking machine. Though I think I'm better move-wise with Rugal(and his EX form, for that matter, reg Bison stinks), I can poke you to death with EX Bison. Posted by Mummy-B on May 16th, 2001 03:48 PM: Blah, I said a Level 2 Buster Wolf up there, I meant Level 3 Oh well. Level 2 has a pretty good one too I guess. You know what GemInite, I think I am just as biased to normal Terry over EX as you are for Honda over EX Honda, now that I think about it. ... I know I brought this up a while ago and I hope maybe things have changed, but would anyone happen to play any Morrigan lately? I think I am like the only person here who uses here, or so it seems like it. I think she works better in SNK Groove but then I am partial to SNK unless I'm using Ryu/Terry anyway. Does anyone know the priority on her jumping fierce punch, because it seems to out priortize alot of stuff, I traded with a lp Shoryuken once when I timed it right, but that may have been a fluke since I have only done it once yesterday. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by cheese_master on May 16th, 2001 04:42 PM: I restart playing C v S just recently after a pretty long drought... so I have quite a few questions. First one... Nak's combo... I have absolutely no idea when to time the super after her "My Name is Kim". I have tried like crazy but it never connects... so I was wondering if I could get some help with the timing. Next EX Chun Li or Chun Li? EX has more easy ability to link supers and the better Spinning Bird Kick. But Chun Li has the fireball she can follow. I don't think EX Chun Li's lack of an Anti air hurts her because her j short works a lot better... just doesn't do much damage. Another question is... why does everyone think Raiden sucks? Raiden's only lost cause match up is SNK EX Mai... though Sim can give him probs... Raiden only needs three or four powerbombs. I understand he has a lack of anti air but still. I play EX Raiden and wreck Ryu/Ken all over the place... Guile gives him problems... but against him I hope for that one opening to get the level 3 Powerbomb off. And seeing how Raiden is the arguably the strong character in the game he can trade hits with any one without really losing out. While regular Raiden has some painful combos... EX has that Crazy Train which is easy to link and does ridiculous damage. So unless someone has SNK EX Mai... they really have no right to diss on him cuz he can very dangerous when played correctly. Even on EX Mai... Raiden can kill her before she has a chance to go to desparation mode. Last question... who are the best counters for Guile other than Nak. As far as I see in the game... there are none. Thats why I think the designers at Capcom are a bunch of fags. I mean in every game other than Alpha 3 and M vs C 2 Guile has been dominant. And in every other game a dominant character usually gets toned down in later games (i.e. Wolverine, Ken, Akuma, Zangief, Dhalsim)... but Guile bitch ass is getting more powerful by the game. What the fuck is going through the designer's heads? Don't get me wrong... I play Guile and all (because you gotta play the best characters in a game in order to give yourself the best chance to win) but I personally think he is a piece shitly easy character to play in this game. In M v C 2 even Cable has his weaknesses in the game... Guile in this game has no apparent weaknesses short of tricking person (which Nak is good at) playing him. His only move that has an ounce of recovery time is his Flashkick. He has a poke that goes over low attacks and has mad priority (the sobat)... it also has like no start up or recovery (even Ryu's hopkick can easily be DPed). I hope the people at Capcom who designed Guile for this game got fired before the development of CvS2. (Sorry if I sound bitter... but it was not fun playing this turtling piece of shit Guile player yesterday when I was trying to learn Chun Li). __________________ I came, I saw, I conquered. Posted by Bastion on May 16th, 2001 05:01 PM: EX Chunli doesn't have a lack of anti-air, her spinning the air bird kick works better than Normal Chun-li's Rising kick. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by peetah on May 16th, 2001 06:04 PM: Power dunk! Power dunk! Power dunk! Power dunk! 'Are you okay? Buster WOLF!' <- is that what he actually says? Okay maybe it won't work on ALL people, but it sure is fun to keep somebody blocking all day... Tuff: Naturally don't try it on Ken... but do enjoy yourself when you manage it on blanka or yuri... and make sure you're close enough to make them block the rising hit of powerdunk... jchensor: I have been trying like hell to connect Buster Wolf, f, cr.fierce, LK power dunk, like you did in that SNK combo movie... I've only nailed in once in the arcade... (1) got any tips on timing for that combo? (2) what's the most practical post-buster wolf move in a real match? cheese: Guile's not THAT overpowered... there are a number of characters in the game that can give him a tough time... in my list he would rank above all (save Nak) R2s, but not by a lot... at least not enough a difference that can't be made up for in terms of skill... Nak on the other hand is quite a lot more overpowered.... I've been wanting to play Raiden, but he just looks... weird... and stupid... but if you win with him, you can't look more stupid than the guy who lost to Raiden player can you? I'd like to know how a good Raiden player plays... what moves are vital to him... how he counters fireballers, crossovers, pokers, etc... originally I thought the most viable way of playing him is like playing Gief, and land a few throws... but from what you say, it seems like he's got more options than Gief... Posted by GemInite on May 16th, 2001 06:42 PM: Mummy-B: i have to admit the power dunk is a great move only because it does not require a charge. Posted by cheese_master on May 16th, 2001 07:14 PM: peetah... sorry about the bitching about Guile... it was more my own frustration because I had forgotten how to play against Guile. Last couple weeks of M vs C 2 made me forget some of the basics to beat some character. I was just looking at the online vids again for refreshers. I still think he is way more overpowered than Nak (of course I really haven't seen any superb Naks up in Michigan... she'll she still like an undiscovered treasure here). I guess I can list some of the Raiden strats that I use that makes him in my opinion deeper than Zangief. I usually use EX Raiden. But if you have very good combo execution... I think Raiden may suit you better. I don't like the sticks at our arcade... so I try to make my stick manuveuring easy by using EX. Now lets start... EX Raiden is in my opinion is to be played patiently. Do not solely depend on throw set ups like Zangief... why simply because you don't have the range he does on his piledriver. You want to use his sweep alot... because it has range... and hurts like a bitch... but most importantly guard stuns a long time. Once you use the sweep... you should move in on your opponent and get a feel for what is going to do... so just block. If your opponent pokes alot after the blockstun... you should just go for another sweep. At worst it should trade hit. It they go for a quick long range poke just block it till out of range. If they DP out the stun. Go for either the throw or the s fierce into bad breath. Of course if they have a whole character and you have 3 levels... do the crouching fierce into Crazy Train... that should be very close to 80% on most Ratio 2s. If your opponent stands up to move back... dp with grab move. It should grab them out of their stand if they are in the correct range. So once you have the feel for your opponent... start widening you game play. When your opponent jumps in on you (this happens a lot)... you should roll and do DP grab move to grab them out of the air... only when you opponent jumping in with short or jab early in their jump. If your opponent jumps with a fierce move early... then the b-f jp should charge should take care of that. If they jump in late with a fierce move... roll underneath them and powerbomb or bad breath them depending on the distance. Of course all jumpin can be countered with a rolling drop kick. Make sure you learn to be able to time roll for superjumps and jumps. With Raiden... he has a great wake up game. He can do a fake meaty into a powerbomb when they are rising. He can do his shoulder charge if they get up and start poking. He also has the DP grab if they try to jump away or the drop kick. These move are probably his best assets because of two reasons... number one they are a great at keeping the opponent from getting away... but the better aspect is they knock the opponent down within range to continue his wakeup game. Periodically one should try for Raiden cross up j d Hp. It has massive blockstun... very good damage... unusual looking range. DPs have to timed well to not trade with this move. The blockstun on this move allows Raiden to use computer's strategy... move in close and either go for a sweep or a powerbomb as the blockstun wears off. It is very hard to read what the Raiden will do. If the jumpin lands with Raiden... then do a crouching fierce into Crazy Train. These are few tricks I use with Raiden. I personally think he is a very dangerous character who can dish out damage very fast. Make sure to keep using Raiden high block stuns to move in on your opponent. And make sure to keep the fight within one sweep of each other... because that is where Raiden excells. My EX Raiden strat are very different from how many people play regular Raiden so you will need to ask someone else for those strats. __________________ I came, I saw, I conquered. Posted by VruS on May 16th, 2001 09:27 PM: I would use rayden, it's just that pot belly of his annoys me. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 16th, 2001 11:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by VruS I would use rayden, it's just that pot belly of his annoys me. haha! That's why I don't use him either, he's just to goofy looking, sorta like R. Mika in A3! But I've played a couple of decent Raiden players and I think he could be a useful substitute for Gief (although neither is close to being top tier). Posted by Redcoldfire on May 16th, 2001 11:56 PM: heypeople i was kinda cuious what is the top tier for this game? lst i cheked itwas lke guile and nak..... who else is up there? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Bastion on May 17th, 2001 12:25 AM: This game is unusual. There is a tier, but its more of a tier for teams. 4 ratio ones (EX King, EX Vice, EX Beni, Dhalsim, Cammy, Blanka) 2 ratio ones and Nak, Guile, Ryu, EX Terry (to many to list, like Blarog, Honda....etc. 1 ratio one and Yamazaki (I'd argue EXBison...but I might be alone on that one.) does this make much sense to you? Basically understand that 4 ratio ones is best...1 ratio 4 is worst. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Servebot on May 17th, 2001 01:04 AM: I got a question that I hope you guys can help. How do you counter the Ex yuri trap. Its really hard for me to counter it because if I try to roll, she lands faster and I take the lks into sweep into air fireball. After that it all happens again. If I go on defensive, the guy starts using throws like after the lks. Also sometimes when I roll through I fireball he does the tap dance on your head super to me at the end of the roll. Posted by Hoe Muffin on May 17th, 2001 01:14 AM: Couple of things: * Yuri has the crappiest stamina in the game (the only person who has worse is Sakura), which means that if you trade, you will come out ahead. In other words, do NOT be afraid of smacking her after the fireball even if you take the hit. If you've got someone who can clear the fireball AND nail her, more power to you... (Benimaru, Gief's aerial russian grab super... hehe) * if you can, just jump back. If she tries to relaunch the fireball, two things: 1) it missess, which means that if she rushes in, you get a free sweep/c. jab/short into combo of choice (no block stun to irritate you) 2) You can super jump over and tag her. * be patient... and throw out jabs to prevent them from throwing you. EX Yuri cannot do a whole lot of damage, so pick your openings carefully, and punish her. * EX Yuri doesn't have a good wake up move, except maybe her rush super, which means that if you're using somebody like EX Terry, you can basically abuse her after a sweep. __________________ The Queen is back! Long live the Queen! Soil qui mal y pense. Posted by Hoe Muffin on May 17th, 2001 01:16 AM: Bastion, I'm not sure if I agree with 4 ratio 1's, mainly because they can really get messed up by Nak... if that damn combo connects twice, she'll basically clean out a ratio 1. I personally prefer the 2 Ratio 1's 1 Ratio 2 or 2 ratio 2's, though again, it depends on the player. __________________ The Queen is back! Long live the Queen! Soil qui mal y pense. Posted by peetah on May 17th, 2001 01:41 AM: Servebot: It all depends on who you are using... all characters with short rolls kill the trap right there... characters who can super thru the fireball also kill the trap... but presuming you've got neither of those just jump straight up after the block sweep... that should keep you pretty safe... unless the EX Yuri guy knows how to super you (either super) on the way down from the jump, keep jumping straight up to avoid the fireball... alternatively a relatively short roll following by an immediate invincible start up move (DP's or King's L1 super) will most likely nab yuri coming down from her jump or as she tries to LK you... also depending on the distance you may have the opportunity to super jump over any cr.fierce attempts into a decent crossover, but you'll need to experiment to get the distance down... Posted by GemInite on May 17th, 2001 02:42 AM: all you gotta do is jump back to escape yuris trap. Posted by Urotsukidoji on May 17th, 2001 02:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bastion This game is unusual. There is a tier, but its more of a tier for teams. 4 ratio ones (EX King, EX Vice, EX Beni, Dhalsim, Cammy, Blanka) EX King? Really? Did you mean normal King, or is EX King really considered better? Posted by Bastion on May 17th, 2001 04:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin Bastion, I'm not sure if I agree with 4 ratio 1's, mainly because they can really get messed up by Nak... if that damn combo connects twice, she'll basically clean out a ratio 1. I personally prefer the 2 Ratio 1's 1 Ratio 2 or 2 ratio 2's, though again, it depends on the player. Yeah, I'd disagree with my self in a few situations. But the general rule with this game is that four ratio ones make more use of your ratio points then any other team. And too clear up the King, EX King bit....both are good, but I wasn't going to list every damn character and there EX versions. Too clear everything up I'll just post this http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=3085 It's the thread omni posted about the Arcadia CvS rankings. Some of it is questionable...like EX Raiden sucking so much he is below King...ouch. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Chunnnerv on May 17th, 2001 04:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by Servebot I got a question that I hope you guys can help. How do you counter the Ex yuri trap. Its really hard for me to counter it because if I try to roll, she lands faster and I take the lks into sweep into air fireball. After that it all happens again. If I go on defensive, the guy starts using throws like after the lks. Also sometimes when I roll through I fireball he does the tap dance on your head super to me at the end of the roll. Hoe Muffin is right that many characters will simply out trade EX yuri's air fireball. 'Sim's standing RH. and Cammy's cannon drill will trade with the fireball's and both will take off more energy than her fireball. So as long as you have more energy to start with you can outtrade her. This isn't a great strategy unless you don't mind basically losing your character's health as well. If you ANTICIPATE EX yuri's air fireball after her cr.RH blanka's RH. upward ball will trade (maybe beat). The only problem is you must do the move as soon as you are out of block stun. If Yuri doesn't do an air fireball or does a ground fireball you will be punished! Characters with moves that simply beat her to the air fireball are Nak's ground slide ( not sure about the air one ) and Terry's crackshoot. Those are the only ones I can think of right now. Posted by Mummy-B on May 17th, 2001 04:36 AM: Morrigan's super jump + fierce punch will beat it out, as well as jump stright up and air Soul Fist. If you feel real ballsy, you can try to super jump and air Vector Drain. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Redcoldfire on May 17th, 2001 04:43 AM: hy what are all of morrigans move list as in specials? and what ar the priorities of each of them? __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Mummy-B on May 17th, 2001 07:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by Redcoldfire hy what are all of morrigans move list as in specials? and what ar the priorities of each of them? Check out Capcom vs. SNK Game Data, it lists all her moves there. Her DP has less priority than a Shoto DP, but it has a tad more horizontal coverage. I believe it will lose out to a Shoryuken, a Somersault Kick... and I think that's about it. Soul Fist has a kind of late start up, but it is really good because it appears alot slower than it actually is so it really throws people off. It has the same priority has any other fireball, just a couple more frames at start up more than Sonic Boom, Ryo's fireball (which I believe is the fastest in the game), an Hadouken. Vector Drain is a command throw and has MAD priority. You can catch rollers out of it, you can catch people in the middle of animation frames, I have even caught Guile before he actually Somersault Kick. Vector Drain can also be done in the air as well, and it has MAD priority there too. Since it's a command throw, it take presedence over any normal attack when timed correctly. If the opponent is right next to you when you stand up, you can do it as a wake up reversal and it's practically unstoppable. Cardinal Blade Desperation is really, really good, and can combo itself into one another. If you time it right, you can whiff it and before the other character has a chance to sweep you or throw you, you can do another one and catch them. At Level 3 it's ridiculous in priority. The Drill Desperation has horrible priority. Don't use it. The only practical use for it is to counter the SNK Groove Iori Wine Glass Trap - once he starts it, do it and you can Drill him right into a Cardinal Blade super for one terrific combo. Darkness Illusion is well... Darkness Illusion - it's a Raging Demon with less range, but it can be done in the air. Same priority as a Raging Demon, except the Raging Demon itself will beat it out of course. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 17th, 2001 09:22 PM: CvS2 grooves are sounding kind of gay Posted by Bastion on May 17th, 2001 09:55 PM: Right now they sound a little confusing, but it's going to make the game really deep. I just hope they make the groove that lets you parry (Capcom 3) also limit the character to one super. Or else its going to be *Parry....Shin-sho-ryu....* And that would make the game garbage. Though there is no info, maybe Capcom 3 groove characters take damage worse, and deal the worst damage. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Servebot on May 17th, 2001 11:36 PM: I wonder whats gonna happen to all the SNK rush supers in CvS2. All you need to do is parry the first hit in Capcom3 and that already makes the super useless. Posted by GemInite on May 17th, 2001 11:39 PM: Capcom 2 sounds useless. Who cares bout the run Posted by Bastion on May 17th, 2001 11:49 PM: Geminite did you ever play Alpha 3? It seems that Capcom 2 might be like X-ism, then only get one super but it does 70% damage. And run is good. It is easy to parry a sonic boom, but its not easy to parry a sonic boom follwed up with a sobat, or a c.lk,c.lk,c.lk, Somersault Flash Kick super (that does 70% ) __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Bastion on May 18th, 2001 12:22 AM: Nak has been raped brutally . She can't link the s.HP casue its so slow, and the slide has alot of recovery now. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by VruS on May 18th, 2001 12:25 AM: heh heh new grooves capcom1= scrub groove capcom 3 = I like this groove snk 2 = this is prolly a good choice for a groove. this just in, 6 button layout. Bah, fuck dc controllers. I want 4 button back Posted by Bastion on May 18th, 2001 12:45 AM: SNK 3 groove sounds interesting. The just defend thing kills fireball pokes more than CAP 3 cause the just defend should give you health back (if they stay true to Garou). __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by GemInite on May 18th, 2001 01:12 AM: SNK3 looks good to me since i play honda mainly. Capcom 1 looks great overall Posted by GemInite on May 18th, 2001 01:19 AM: SNK3 looks good to me since i play honda mainly. Capcom 1 looks great overall Posted by Mummy-B on May 18th, 2001 04:12 AM: Yeah I am partial or Capcom Groove 3 since I was hardcore SFIII a while back and I like parry (i thought they would add parry, but I hoped they wouldn't put parry AND roll into it that would be ridiculous, you'd never get hit), and SNK Groove 3 sounds really solid, I really like the sound of that. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by PIMPimitsu on May 18th, 2001 07:47 AM: Can wait to test out the new groves.. and c what this is all about.. __________________ P-I... M-P.. oligy. Posted by Mummy-B on May 19th, 2001 06:11 AM: Okay well, back to CvS 1. Does NO ONE play Morrigan here? I would really like to hear someone else's input on her, because I am like the only person that ever mentions anything about her... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 19th, 2001 06:14 AM: Muwahahah HOnda is even stronger in CvS2, and in one of the screens it looked like he has another super Posted by Redcoldfire on May 19th, 2001 06:55 AM: Hell YEA! i started useing morrigan just like a week ago i really didnt think she was even that good but whoa.... it's nice she is probably mah new favorite charcter other than um.... king yeah.... anyway... i love this morrigan HAHAHHAHHA! need alot more practice with hertho.... what do you think her "main" combo is? i alo love doing her command throw as a finsher...MUAHAHAH __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Chunnnerv on May 19th, 2001 09:09 AM: Capcom groove 3 sounds pretty suspect to me. I mean PARRYING in CVS! I think this will totally ruin some characters. What is balrog going to do if you can parry his rushes, he was not designed to be played in parry mode, as it will be sooo easy to counter anything he does as all his moves are single hits! and parrying blanka's roll or honda's headbutt and being able to punish them? sick . you can also say goodnight to EX yuri fireball traps, if you can run right under them !One thing's for sure, a lot of adjustments will have to be made in order to dominate with your favorite characters. Of personal interest is that James Chen says that Chun Li will be in her 3rd strike incarnation. I hope this means she gets her overhead flip kick back, Shoto's beware hehehe! But losing the tenshou kyaku means no more cross-up combos I think someone already mentioned this but a parrying Ryu better not be able to shin shoryuken after a parry. anyways I'm sure it is going to be a great game, especially since those reviewing it say it puts CVS1 to shame. I love CVS1 as it is and I'm sure most of you on this thread feel the same way, or you would not be here! Quite a few people I know bash CVS1 HARD! ( of course they suck HARD at CVS ). These people say they look impressed by the changes in CVSII, I can't wait for these 3rd strike,A3 people to put their money where their mouths are and try to dominate us supposedly weak CVS players! Posted by Bastion on May 19th, 2001 02:37 PM: I mentioned the parry...shin-sho . You have to expect some characters to be really bad in certain modes. Like what is Blanka going to do with a parry? It helps in obvious ways, but overall Blanka with a parry could be really worthless. Balrog might have to play a more high low game against CAP-3 players and once he is in on the opponent just keep the pressure on. I really hope CAP-3 players take double gurad damage, that would make up for the parry. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by peetah on May 19th, 2001 02:50 PM: Erm... parry would improve blanka's game... he could parry jumping in attacks into a ball roll... just like Urien... Posted by Redcoldfire on May 19th, 2001 04:25 PM: hey people. but i was wodering what is PARRY? ok thanks.... i think i didnt play the street fighter with that option __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Bastion on May 19th, 2001 04:52 PM: PARRY Instead of blocking/guarding an opponents attack, you press forward at the instant your opponents attack is about to hit you. This slows the recovery of the opponent and lets you counter attack. It's a cool little thing but it can turn the game into a poke and throw game. The only safe offensive moves are jabs and shorts, and if you succsesfully parry something you throw your opponent...at least thats how 3rd strike turned out . It significantly changes the way you'll play your opponent (if they can parry). If your playing as Ryu his fierball becomes mostly useless, because they can just parry it and gain super meter. SNK-3 feature Just Defend. Just defend is like the parry except you press back instead of forward when the attack is about to hit you. I don't know as much about it, like if you can Just Defend multiple hitting moves, but I know it ruins fireball even more now. Because with each Just Defend you are gain health. Blanka won't be as good with a parry as most of the cast. Thats all I meant. Zangief with a parry turns vary dangerous, while Blanka is just Blanka with more offense...so it's a really bad example....I'll just shut up then. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Mummy-B on May 19th, 2001 09:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by Redcoldfire Hell YEA! i started useing morrigan just like a week ago i really didnt think she was even that good but whoa.... it's nice she is probably mah new favorite charcter other than um.... king yeah.... anyway... i love this morrigan HAHAHHAHHA! need alot more practice with hertho.... what do you think her "main" combo is? i alo love doing her command throw as a finsher...MUAHAHAH Um... Well, the main combo I do with her is j.fp -> c.lp -> oc.fp -> oc.rh it's pretty solid, and if you've got a Level 3 you can buffer a Level 3 Cardinal Blade at the end of it. Usually don't combo much with her unless it's Level 1 Cardinal Blade, Level 1 Cardinal Blade, I stick out her limbs and annoy the shit out of people because they can't move in on me because her limbs have mad priority. Her air fireball is pretty good too, it can do this fake out thing that I explained a long time ago. I actually found a consistent number of people it works against well... I am pretty sure that f+fierce punch, offensive crouching fierce punch are her best limb attacks... And f+fierce kick anti-airs people so long as they are not in cross-up range. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by peetah on May 19th, 2001 10:15 PM: Bastion: No you're right. A lot of characters gain relatively more advantages with parry than Blanka... but I think the bigger impact is with the person playing against C3 groove, cos then, I a lot of the things that were originally safe are no longer safe... like its no longer safe to jump in with a stick LK at characters without an anti-air... it's gonna be very annoying to change your whole offensive or defensive (v/s short jumps) style just because somebody's picked a different groove... Posted by Mummy-B on May 20th, 2001 08:02 AM: SHIN Sho~~ Ryu~~~ KEN! *#*BUMP*#* __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 20th, 2001 07:23 PM: I wonder where ThisGuileKillYa disapeared too? Posted by VruS on May 20th, 2001 08:16 PM: I was wondering the same thing a few days ago. Maybe he got bored of srk.com Yun and chunli on capcom 2. just run up to the oppennt and throw. Or you could use one of those grooves with the short jump in it Posted by Mummy-B on May 21st, 2001 09:10 PM: Page 3? Geez. BUMP __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 22nd, 2001 12:25 AM: yeah talk about CvS has died down quite a bit. I think its cuz we shared all our strats already Posted by VruS on May 22nd, 2001 03:48 AM: cvs died a loooooooong time ago at my arcades. I borrowed 3rd strike from my friend's friend. This is the first time I am "playing" it. Chun li Rules. Back to CvS:we've run out of the good chars. All of a sudden, this topic feels so empty There is a torontonian going to ECC6. Do you guys know who he is? Posted by GemInite on May 22nd, 2001 04:29 AM: Vrus: O out of the 5 people listed from toronto 4 of them we know. The 5th JOhn whatever we have never met Posted by Mummy-B on May 22nd, 2001 04:53 AM: Hey, did you guys ever have tournaments that used the Ratio 2 function on CvS? Every tournament I have been to here has double elimination standard mode and double elimination Ratio 2 mode, and you cannot use any of the same characters in the different tourney modes. It's pretty cool because we have to learn to use different people and deal with characters on teams that usually wouldn't team together... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by AmakusaShiroTokisada on May 22nd, 2001 05:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Okay well, back to CvS 1. Does NO ONE play Morrigan here? I would really like to hear someone else's input on her, because I am like the only person that ever mentions anything about her... Her dp lacks priority, her roll is too long and she suffers from a poor short-ranged poking game. She could use a hop kick. Morrigan does have short fireball recovery time and the ultimate counter(raging demon) though. __________________ Et lux perpetua! Posted by Mummy-B on May 22nd, 2001 07:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by AmakusaShiroTokisada Her dp lacks priority, her roll is too long and she suffers from a poor short-ranged poking game. She could use a hop kick. Morrigan does have short fireball recovery time and the ultimate counter(raging demon) though. Her DP only lacks priority when the opponent is in cross-up range. Naturally, no DP can be as strong as the Shoto DP ^_^ Yeah I think she has the longest roll in the game, I could be wrong. But it's pretty good sometimes, especially with her command throw and it can actually escape alot of corner traps safely due to it's length. But yeah it's annoying sometimes too, I with she had a Terry-like roll sometimes. Her crouching jab is pretty fast though, as well as the standing jab. Her oc.fp is really really high priority I don't know what is up with that mess. I thinks he lacks a really powerful short-ranged poking game due to her ability to command throw, because she would be ridiculously strong in close range with both the ability to command throw AND control with short-range poking. ... Sorry if I sound defensive, I believe Morrigan is one of the most underrated characters in CvS - Picture you telling GemInite EX Honda is superior, that's how I am with normal Terry and Morrigan ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 22nd, 2001 08:05 PM: DO NOT say to GemInite that EX HOnda is better. He hates it Posted by Hannibal Smith on May 22nd, 2001 08:41 PM: Well, Capcom (Street Fighter) made the parry, and it hurts its very own characters. Ironic, isn't it! __________________ "If only just one Iori was evil enough, I guess two Evil Iori's will do fine." "Work up a healthy lather of justice at The Fight Club." Posted by Mummy-B on May 22nd, 2001 11:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite DO NOT say to GemInite that EX HOnda is better. He hates it ha ha ha ha __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by gamedude_7 on May 23rd, 2001 03:17 AM: i'm not sure it works for marvel vs capcom but it works in marvel vs street fighter. After blocking your opponent's sweep kick, do a super shoryureppa. I like this trick since it scares opponent who likes to do sweep kicks a lot or do repeated sweep kicks in a row. PS-never tried other supers before with this trick __________________ Ken & Zangief are my favorites Posted by Chunnnerv on May 23rd, 2001 05:35 AM: I know this is a tactics forum, but it's the only one I know of that GemInite reads. So GemInite could you please tell Jay that this Thursday a lot of people will be at VA to give us some practice in CVS before we head down to ECC6. I don't know how to get a hold of Jay. It's really too bad you can't make it! Posted by GemInite on May 23rd, 2001 11:30 PM: Chun: Aight i'll let him know. All: hehe jchen mentioned me in his CvS2 update Posted by GemInite on May 23rd, 2001 11:33 PM: chun: oh yeah what time is everyone going to VA? Posted by DeadlyRaveNeo on May 24th, 2001 04:04 AM: ok, this might sound stupid but, I'm actually interested in going back to playing CvS now, I stopped playing the game for a while, but with CvS2 coming out I feel renewed interest in the game. I play SF3 but the Parry system in CvS2 does not appeal to me, I would probably use SNK3 or CAP2 well anyway, Prez, a top CvS player from Montreal mentioned that a strong background in A3 helps a lot in getting better CvS, but I don't think I have enough time to learn another game. I'm interested to hear what you guys think, if what things I should incorporate in playing CvS. BTW I play MvC2, MotW, KoF2000 and SF3. __________________ Street Fighter Toronto << Local Arcade News, Arcade Reviews, FAQ's (under construction) IRC - #TOSF at EFNET Posted by Chunnnerv on May 24th, 2001 04:06 AM: oops! everyone should be at VA around 5:00 according to Jay Wang's post. Jchensor inserting your name... well nickname is soooo cool, you da man GemInite! Well enough of the spamming on this thread, tks for telling Jay, I hope he makes it. Oh one more thing, in case he is unaware of it, we are all crashing at Dave's place along with the Montreal peeps so there will be mad practicing happenin'!laterz Posted by ALTANertive on May 24th, 2001 05:59 AM: I didn't read the last few pages of this thread cuz it's just extremely long so I'm not sure if you guys are still talking about strategies, but thought I'd give out a few of my tricks. Hope I'm not saying something someone already said. I used to play 3rd Strike so mind games are a must. A lot of people say Kyo sucks in CvS, but I beg to differ. With Kyo you must be constantly on the offensive and trying to fool your opponenet. One good thing to try is experimenting with recovery times and priority attacks. For example, if you do an R.E.D kick and your opponent attempts to attack you with a Fierce or Roundhouse, you can do an Oniyaki( DP move ) and it will come out before his move hits you. A good fake out is with his overhead and a lvl 3 Saishu Kesse Ougi (Final Countdown I belive?). Most people decide to attack his/her opponent after an overhead attack, i.e. Ryu's two hit downward punch. Usually the preference is a sweep. When your opponent blocks a jump in attack or the beginning of a standing combo, just throw the overhead kick( f + short ) out. Once he gets hit or blocks the overhead kick, perform the lvl3 super. If your opponent tried to attack you with hard ground attack, i.e. sweep, the sweep will pass right through you, the flame pillar will hit him because he/she is sticking out a part of the body, and the ensuing blows will hit. i try to suppress a smile everytime it hits (^_^) This also works well after your opponent blocks an Aragami. If your opponent rolls immediately after he sees the super come out, his roll will not put him/her on the other side and the punches will connect when the character comes out of the roll. Trouble with this technique is, if you use it, most likely your opponent will not fall for it again. I hope this doesn't backfire on me when someone at a tourney knows what I'm going to do =P Oh well, I'll be like James Chen for now and expose my tricks. Props to him for kicking ass even though people know what's up his sleeve, or at least most of it __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by Mummy-B on May 24th, 2001 12:44 PM: I don't think Kyo sucks - I just think he's way too hard for me to learn to use to his full potential, I don't think I'm good enough. So I just don't bother. I've gotten my ass handed to me a couple times by a really good Kyo player every now and then though, his cross up combos are sick, sometimes I think his cross up combos make Nak's cross up combo look like Girl Scout taking a basketweaving course... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ALTANertive on May 24th, 2001 04:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B I don't think Kyo sucks - I just think he's way too hard for me to learn to use to his full potential, I don't think I'm good enough. So I just don't bother. I've gotten my ass handed to me a couple times by a really good Kyo player every now and then though, his cross up combos are sick, sometimes I think his cross up combos make Nak's cross up combo look like Girl Scout taking a basketweaving course... Most of the people that complain Kyo sucks are KOF players. How he lost a lot of moves and priorities etc. If the didn't tone Kyo down he'd be much better than Nakoruru. You have to look at a character in THAT game, not compare him from a different game he/she is in. The only problem is that you have to keep coming up with new stuff to trick your opponent. IF you play at one arcade, then everyone will know what you're about to do. I try to come up with new stuff, but it's getting harder. I forgot to mention one thing last time. Your opponent will most likely not fall for the super trick twice, so that leaves the door open to screw with his head. If he expects the super, walk up and throw him or something like that. __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by Hero on May 24th, 2001 05:40 PM: I think Kyo can be mean. Then again, I've been a bit rusty with him, so I can't offer any specific strats. Speaking of strats, anyone have some for EX Yamazaki? I thought I was being all cool with normal Yamazaki, but then I discover this powerhouse! double FB motion for his Guillotine Super? Sign me up! His dust kick? Wonderful for meaty attacks. Now I just need to know how to put all of his normals, specials, and supers together in a winning formula. __________________ "I'd go beyond a mile to make you smile, but then I'm happy" -311 Level One The Next Level Posted by Truedragon on May 24th, 2001 06:25 PM: I used to use Kyo also(ex). Kyo doesn't completely suck but he isn't tourney material either. James noted something about kyo that I found was right about my gameplay. Kyo is really one dimensional he's all about his dp and getting to hit that's where he deals his damage the most. Ok Kyo has some really good pokes in c.hk,cf.hk,s.hk,s.lk they are all good, his best is the cf+hk. So anyway you really want to close in and trying to get some pokes in, just keep mixing up the play some footsies. Whenever you know about is in crossup range crossover, j.lk,c.lkx2,qcf+k,k.(ex only) If the c.lkx2 is blocked,go for a s.lk safe and keeps you in poking distance, so you still have an advantage. Usually after a dp, I usually throw a ground fireball(ex only) and walk up if they jump dp, if they block you have the poking advantage and you just closed in on them, if they roll go for a combo, or if they are out of range sweep. Then look for a crossup distance, crossup j.lk,c.lkx2,s.lk or combo into qcf+k,k. If they blocked you have just again established poking distance. A good tactic Valle seems to use, is to throw a whiffed c.lk in poking cf.hk distance. Usually since the cf+hk can be pretty slow the opponent might want to look for it then jump at you, sometimes they will think it will be a sweep and they will jump, your lk will recover and you could dp them. So if you ever get someone with this, they will be catious of it again, so next go c.lk,then do a cf.hk most likely they will be afraid to jump so free poke. Don't forget to throw sometimes after a crossup don't go for the combo, go c.lk,s.lp(whiff) throw, then before they get up throw a fireball and try to close in. It's really tougher than it sounds to close in on an opponent who's using strats of their own. Oh and one more thing, in the corner after a qcf+k you can tack on a lvl. 3 super(the only one he has) for pretty good damage. As for regular kyo I think he has damaging combos with and without supers except he loses the fireball which is a great offensive and sometimes even defensive tool. I know only use Nak,Ex Terry,Ex Yuri,Ex vice,Ex Beni, and King. Posted by GemInite on May 24th, 2001 10:48 PM: chun: Sorry i didnt make it to VA, right after i finished my video i got sick and went home. Posted by GemInite on May 24th, 2001 11:48 PM: chun: check your Private Messages Posted by Mummy-B on May 25th, 2001 03:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hero I think Kyo can be mean. Then again, I've been a bit rusty with him, so I can't offer any specific strats. Speaking of strats, anyone have some for EX Yamazaki? I thought I was being all cool with normal Yamazaki, but then I discover this powerhouse! double FB motion for his Guillotine Super? Sign me up! His dust kick? Wonderful for meaty attacks. Now I just need to know how to put all of his normals, specials, and supers together in a winning formula. Ask and you shall recieve. EX Yamazaki is the man. I picked him up for fun and it turns out I started cleaning people with him. He has the naturally solid Yamazaki-keep away game with Serpent Slashes and fierce kicks, but he is more dangerous in that fact that he can handle you much better in close because he a command throw. Five of those command throws will kill a Ratio 2, by the way. First, the Sand Spray (DP+k) is comboable into any Serpent Slash, more preferably the lk version because that one usually hits everyone. You can j.lk -> c. lp x2 -> lp XX lk Sand Spray XX Serpent Slash for some crazy damage, and j.lk -> lp -> fp XX Serpent Slash is pretty good to start some guard breaking. Also, you can do a Level 3 Guillotine after a crouching fierce kick. Naturally, he plays like normal Yamazaki. He's a kicking fool. Now, he has no real anti-air because his lp Serpent Slash has that tad slow start up at the beginning, but there is a remedy for that - learn to Sadomazo (qcf+k) on reaction. Right before a jumping attack connects with you, you can Sadomazo and counter them when the move connects and it's just as efficient as any DP, aside from it's lack of ability to stop deep cross-ups. I have mastered this and it's equivalent of people fearing a turtling Guile's Somersault Kick. The biggest difference IMO is the Bakudan Punch (hcb, f+p) command throw. Why they call it a "Punch" I don't know it looks like a headbutt to me. It takes priority of 85% of limbs after a roll when timed correctly. The damage is ridiculous. The best thing about it is, it help to control Yamazaki's game more. When someone gets in your face with normal, there is not much you can do that holds certainty they will end up backing off, aside from a super. The Bakudan Punch creates this whole new element of control because you can control your close range game much better. Roll in, Bakudan Punch; walk up Bakudan Punch; whatever. It is a sure hit to get them on the ground and you regain Yamazaki's safe distance for control. Wonderful, wonderful move. Ahhh yes the qcf qcf Guilliotine. At Level 1, if you try to catch someone on the ground and they block it, you actually can do another one right away and it outprioritizes a lot of moves an you can catch them. Not a great strategy after the first time though, then try Guillotine they block it, Drill. Great. IMO, the hcb hcb Drill is much easier to pull of than 360 once you get used to it. With qcf qcf and hcb hcb you are more able to respond quickly to things as far as I am concerned. I Level 3 Guillotine on reaction as an anti-air much faster than I would f,hcf+p by far. It's just easier. I don't know what else to write, but EX Yamazaki is the man. He is Yakuza, he is tough, and he speaks Japanese with a mafia slur. My idol. I strive to be Yamazaki. If you have any questions feel free to let me know, I'll do my best to answer them for you. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by kusanagi on May 25th, 2001 03:35 AM: Hey i'm a Regular Kyo player, got any tricks for me I can't seem to find a move that beats Mai's ground command strong punch attack. the down strong punch with kyo in the air loses consistantly. __________________ aahhh... KURAI YAGARE!!! Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 05:40 AM: bout KYO Well, i'm a Kyo player as well, i don't think he sucks, i think he's just as good as in KOF in some matter. I know he's better in KOF, but he's good in his own way in CvS!!! OH i like normal Kyo better, cuz of his cross up combo that take hellaa!!! And he has a good anti-air and a good air command attack(jump down strong punch). While in EX, well i'll get to that later, cuz i never tried. I still think that Kyo is better in normal rather than in ex for some reason, but that's me. Hell i think he can escape most traps aswell if played right. Well anyways, i guess that's all for now, talk to u guys later. Sie Kensou Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 05:46 AM: ... one more thing, any Rugal players out there?? I'm starting on how to use him, but i don't know any combos or strategies, i started him cuz he's my favorite boss in KOF, so at least i'll give him a shot, so please help me out guys, thanks... oh i almost forgot, is Ken's fireball kick and DP kick usefull in EX??? i use Ken in normal and out of curiousity, tried him in EX. Well anyway, talk 2 u guys later. Kensou Posted by ALTANertive on May 25th, 2001 06:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by kusanagi Hey i'm a Regular Kyo player, got any tricks for me I can't seem to find a move that beats Mai's ground command strong punch attack. the down strong punch with kyo in the air loses consistantly. Kyo's down and strong is very good. The only problem is the startup time is extremely long. My friend plays Mai and he pokes me with that move too. If you time the move right, it will beat out Mai's attack. If that's too risky, use o.c. and hard kick. Just don't run into her fan when doing it. o.c. + HK does go under fireballs though, but the timing is very hard. I got lucky once and went under Ryu's super fireball. It's a good advancing move. Or if they are all the way across the screen, which is a rare occasion, do 121 Shiki(HCB + K). Kyo will stop right in front of them. If you anitcipate an attack just throw out a DP. All my tactics are extremely risky, but that's how I play The thing with Mai is, she has really good foot speed, so she can get position do poke with that attack. Like, her jab is also a very good poke. You can also try crossing up or going in with different attacks. Kyo's air attacks are actually pretty decent. __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by jchensor on May 25th, 2001 06:37 AM: quote: All: hehe jchen mentioned me in his CvS2 update I thought you might like that. - James __________________ Girl: "Wow... that was a nice combo." Fukui: "That WAS impressive! But was that a Chain?" Hattori: "I do believe it was... a Link." Ohta: "Fukui-san!" Fukui: "Go, Ohta!" Ohta: "I just talked to the Iron Combo Chef. He said it IS indeed a Link and NOT a Chain. He said if it WAS a Chain, you couldn't Buffer it, so it HAS to be a Link or it won't work!" Fukui: "Ah, you were right, Hattori-san!" Posted by ALTANertive on May 25th, 2001 06:39 AM: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by Sie Kensou one more thing, any Rugal players out there?? I'm starting on how to use him, but i don't know any combos or strategies, i started him cuz he's my favorite boss in KOF, so at least i'll give him a shot, so please help me out guys, thanks... oh i almost forgot, is Ken's fireball kick and DP kick usefull in EX??? i use Ken in normal and out of curiousity, tried him in EX. Well anyway, talk 2 u guys later. Kensou I use Rugal every now and then. Most important move for him is standing hard kick. It's a fairly decent anti air. It's not as good as Yamazaki's down + HP because it goes forward more rather than up. It's fairly fast too so you can also use it as a keep away. Mix up his regular fireball and Kaiser Wave. His DP move with kick sucks big. The startup time is very long and it can be hit out quit easily. So you can't really use it as say Ryu's DP. If you hit a standing fierce, you can connect with a God Press(HCF + P ). You can do standing or crouching short into Genocide Cutter. A very damaging combo is jump in HK, standing HK, into Gigantic Pressure. His Dark Barrier is also very useful. Many people think it only reflects fireballs, however if they run into it, it does hit. I mainly hit people jumping in or rolling into it. You can chip with this little combo, jump HK or LK, c. LK, c. LP, c.HP, fireball. Hope this helps any. If you have other questions just shoot. __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 04:38 PM: ... Kewl, i'll try those tricks out with Rugal. thanks guys Kensou Posted by Sho 2 on May 25th, 2001 08:53 PM: Can anyone a complete, detailed discriptionon Iori in Cvs1 and Ia little preview of what he plays like CvS2 along with moves he will have, how much damage he will, what ratio he is best in, what groove suits him best, and in-depth vs strats for everyone in the game ALONG with a 2 page essay saying why you think he is the best. JUST KIDDING. ON a more serious note can one tell me better way to practice doing a HCB,F and HCBx2 moves (don't have DC ) or a place close to Oakland with good controls (Place I go to now has s#@!!y sticks). Also do you it depends on the way you grip the arcade stick. I grip it with my whole hand but it gives me hell trying to these moves.I have tried with it in-between my middle and ring fingers, it comes A BIT easier but still not good enough plus it gives me hell to do DP and HCFx2 moves. Is ther a better way in ball form. I ask this because I try and use Iori and Yama but I suck at this game. I been for about 6 months but I don't feel I good enough and not being able to do key motions hampers me more. It might these crummy controls but I can't be sure without a Dreamcast. Mummy B great post about EX Yama which brings me to ask a favor. Can you write a mini-strats for Iori and just little vs strats vs Guile, Nak, Blanka, Sim, and Akuma. I hate the fact that Iori is only good in Snk mode but if I find way to play him effectively or in Capcom mode effectively, I'd be much better. Mummy B if you have already written one can you tell me where it. You don't to respond and I'd be very grateful to anyone in particular. Posted by Redcoldfire on May 25th, 2001 10:34 PM: hy people i ws wondering what else you people could say about kyo... i like to use him.. and i wana know how i could improve mah game. thanks if you respond __________________ HA! and I thought my grandma was easy. Let this be an example to the rest of you. Posted by Saint Eva on May 25th, 2001 10:42 PM: Hi all. Until recently, I never really found crossing-up to be so important. People were constantly trying to cross me up, so after a while, I learned to block it properly and tell ahead of time which way to block. However, I noticed that there are still a lot of people who still eat cross-ups and possibly big combos after (Think: Nak). Getting to the point, I just picked up Cammy today and I nailed James Chen's patented Cammy combo very frequently. Now, what I would like to know is when is the best time to cross-up? After JC's Amazing Cammy Combo (c) connects, Cammy is left at the PERFECT distance to super jump and cross-up again, but sometimes people DP'ed me out of it. I've also had a couple of my attempts to start the chain of Cammy combos stuffed by DPs. Am I doing it at the wrong time? What should I do after I knock someone down (like, wait a bit and then cross-up?)? A detailed rundown on the cross-up game (esp. with examples for Cammy and/or Nak) would be greatly appreciated . Thanks in advance. Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 10:47 PM: Hi, bout cammy, what's that combo of James Chen's, i don't think i saw it yet, also bout cross ups, i still have hard time blocking them, but i'll get it eventually. I guess that's all i have to say for now. ok later. Kensou Posted by Mummy-B on May 26th, 2001 12:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Saint Eva Hi all. Until recently, I never really found crossing-up to be so important. People were constantly trying to cross me up, so after a while, I learned to block it properly and tell ahead of time which way to block. However, I noticed that there are still a lot of people who still eat cross-ups and possibly big combos after (Think: Nak). Getting to the point, I just picked up Cammy today and I nailed James Chen's patented Cammy combo very frequently. Now, what I would like to know is when is the best time to cross-up? After JC's Amazing Cammy Combo (c) connects, Cammy is left at the PERFECT distance to super jump and cross-up again, but sometimes people DP'ed me out of it. I've also had a couple of my attempts to start the chain of Cammy combos stuffed by DPs. Am I doing it at the wrong time? What should I do after I knock someone down (like, wait a bit and then cross-up?)? A detailed rundown on the cross-up game (esp. with examples for Cammy and/or Nak) would be greatly appreciated . Thanks in advance. Cammy cross ups best after you've knocked someone down. She has a really solid ground game and you don't need to be jumping in with her very much at all - step in and crouch foward, stand roundhouse, Spiral Arrow - you can move in and apply pressure, anti-airing with her Cannon Spike when you need to. Cammy's cross up is not vital to her play, however it does make her that much more dangerous. But yeah, she's best crossing someone up when they are getting up, there's always the chance of the DP hitting you out especially a Shoto DP which are the most effective at stuffing out cross ups along with Rising Tackle. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on May 26th, 2001 12:26 AM: Re: Re: ... quote: Originally posted by ALTANertive I use Rugal every now and then. Most important move for him is standing hard kick. Beg to differ. I believe his most potent weapon is actually Kaiser Wave. Alot of people think I am on crack for saying this, but I think ThisGuileKillYa was talking about how great it was even. First, the Kaiser Wave takes up a massive amount of the screen for a normal projectile. Also, it *will* knock you down when it connects. Therefore, manipulation of the charge time on it is one of the best things you can learn with Rugal. You can time the Wave right to anti-air, catch limbs, punish rollers, and induce mind games. You must learn the timing yourself and train yourself for it, much like mastering Yamazaki's Sadomazo for use as an anti-air. Genocide Cutter. It's not great. I did a really in-depth analysis of how this hits people way earlier in this thread, and basically you have to start this up with *perfect* timing because too late you'll get stuffed and too early you'll whiff. This is actually one of those DP moves where you have to just the fierce kick version sometimes. Not a very reliable anti-air, but it's something. Dark Barrier. Doesn't really serve a purpose much because it has lag and it leaves him open. However, against the likes of EX Terry who rolls in a whole bunch to punish you with a Power Dunk, Dark Barrier punishes rollers because they go right into it and it WILL knock them down. Effective anti-rolling move, if not for anything else. The main thing to realize with Rugal is that he is strictly a distance player. Rugal is hit-and-run up close - strike hard and fast with a Super and get out and maintain control from a distance. All of Rugal's moves are designed to control from a distance, which also explains his lack of speed and priority on most of his normal hits - he doesn't need to be fighting in close like Cammy, Nak, or Yuri. Roll in, strike with a Genocide Heaven, get the hell out and control. That's the basic flaw with EX Rugal - he goes against everything Capcom designed him to do. EX Rugal is designed to be an up-close and personal fighter where he completely lacks the proper priority and speed to handle such a drastic change in movesets. Maintain your distance and control, move in and strike hard, and back off and control - distance is essential to Rugal, which is why all of his moves are made to prevent you from closing in on him. ... If you want to sift through this thread, I wrote up a really detailed analysis of Rugal's moves and priorities, I believe it was for ShadowCharlie, so if you PM him he might know where it's located, I have no idea what page it's on, probably somewhere around page 10. I am pretty faded right now and I haven't slept all night and it's 9 in the morning, so I'm checking out. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Saint Eva on May 26th, 2001 12:48 AM: Mummy-B: Hmm, alright thanks. I just remembered the ol' tick into throw, so I think I'll be spending more time on the ground than in the air. I guess that's where I went wrong earlier today; trying to constantly land the cross-up ^^;;. Next time I'm at the arcade I'll try that stuff out. Anything else I should know about crossing-up (not restricted to Cammy)? Sie Kensou: James Chen's own Cammy combo is cross-up j. LK, (upclose) s. HP, c. MK XX Cannon Drill. The hits don't chain so you might have to practice the timing, which is a little tricky at first. When all the hits connect, Cammy is standing at the perfect distance to superjump forward and cross-up again . There's a vid in the Multimedia section with JC's Cammy in action. It's JC vs. Tom Cannon (inkblot). Posted by ALTANertive on May 26th, 2001 01:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Saint Eva What should I do after I knock someone down (like, wait a bit and then cross-up?)? A detailed rundown on the cross-up game (esp. with examples for Cammy and/or Nak) would be greatly appreciated . Thanks in advance. With Nak, her dash is like a hop. After a knock down you can hesitate a little, then dash to the other side. Depending on how good your opponent is he may be blocking the wrong way, so go into her bread and butter combo. I don't play her too well, but basically keep crossing over and doing high low attacks to frustrate your opponent. __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by ALTANertive on May 26th, 2001 01:16 AM: Mummy-B: I definitely agree that Kaiser Wave is important and Rugal is better off at a distance. The only thing I dislike of Kaiser Wave is that if your opponent rolls or jumps over it, he has about, oh, a lifetime to hit you. It's not as hard to jump over it as it looks. The key is to never fully charge it. Well, that's just my thoughts. __________________ "Fortune Favors The Brave." -Veilside Check out www.animebooks.com Posted by Sie Kensou on May 26th, 2001 04:27 AM: Bout the kaiser Wave, cross ups Well, Rugal's Kaiser Wave, if done with a weak punch version is much better, cuz sometimes when u jump it, u get hit by it, sorta like an anti airish fireball of somesort, it's also good against rolls, cuz it's slow. Anyways, bout cross ups, i have a hard time blocking it sometimes, if i try walking under it, i think i block it, but i get hit. I have a hard time blocking it, is there an easy way??? help me out. thanks. Kensou Posted by Saint Eva on May 26th, 2001 03:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sie Kensou ...Anyways, bout cross ups, i have a hard time blocking it sometimes, if i try walking under it, i think i block it, but i get hit. I have a hard time blocking it, is there an easy way??? help me out. thanks. Kensou Learn to determine if the jump-in will cross you up. If it looks like he is going to cross you up, block the other way. Make sure you are blocking correctly - remember, blocking is done in relevance to your opponent's position. This is sounding like common knowledge, but it's hard for me to explain. Let me put it this way: to block a cross-up, move your joystick in the direction your opponent jumped from. And remember to block it high! PS - If you see an Iori player jump wayyyy past you, you know he's going for the backwards cross-up kick . Posted by Mummy-B on May 26th, 2001 06:15 PM: Re: Bout the kaiser Wave, cross ups quote: Originally posted by Sie Kensou Well, Rugal's Kaiser Wave, if done with a weak punch version is much better, cuz sometimes when u jump it, u get hit by it, sorta like an anti airish fireball of somesort, it's also good against rolls, cuz it's slow. Anyways, bout cross ups, i have a hard time blocking it sometimes, if i try walking under it, i think i block it, but i get hit. I have a hard time blocking it, is there an easy way??? help me out. thanks. Kensou Are you talking about in general, or with Rugal in particular? If you're talking about Rugal in particular, that is his major weakness. His Genocide Cutter doesn't hit in the back like Guile's Somersault Kick does (although it looks like it should, don't let it fool you) and he doesn't have anything with enough speed of priority on normal moves to counter it in time. The best thing I can tell you is, don't let them get in that close, because Rugal dies to speed and cross ups like it's not funny. Your best option is do dash out of the way, or roll, and counter with a Level 3 Gigantic Pressure. That'll make them stop wanting to cross you up so often. Also, keep in mind that the fierce punch God Press can catch people out of the air if you time it at the last portion of thier jump like right before they land, forgot to mention that. If you're talking about in general, most the Shotos naturally counter it with thier top notch DP, and normal Terry and take it out with a Rising Tackle because the Rising Tackle hits both in front and in back, so does Guile's Somersault Kick. Other than that, it's all about training yourself to hold block one way, and then change to the other direction because there is actually a lag time between the time your character is switching stances and the time you're vulnerable to be hit because you're holding block the wrong way - it's split second, but it's just an adequate amount of time to be able to switch your joystick over to block the rest of the combo. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Sie Kensou on May 27th, 2001 06:01 AM: Hey thanks guys, i'll give it some practice for this small tourney i'm going for CvS. Well thanks, u guys helped me a lot. Wish me luck Kensou Posted by Mummy-B on May 27th, 2001 05:03 PM: In case anyone is interested, I found a pretty useful and consistent Morrigan combo that does some pretty decent damage. I usually hit with it whenever I try, and it's pretty simple. I love the way her normals chain into one another. SNK Groove: j.fp -> c.lp -> oc.fp -> oc.fk -> Level 3 Cardinal Blade -> Level 1 Cardinal Blade You can omit the jumping fierce punch if you want, and in the corner you can just do 3 Level 1 Cardinal Blades. In Capcom Groove just omit the Level 1 Cardinal Blade at the end. The c.lp -> oc.fp -> oc.fk is a pretty useful, quick, and safe combo to use because if it connects it does decent damage and sweeps them, if they block it her oc.fp and oc.fk pushes the opponent away and keeps her from punishment range. ... I'm almost inclined to write a Morrigan strat guide since no one has done one, but I don't think anyone would really read it. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Sie Kensou on May 28th, 2001 04:16 AM: Hi guys, i have one more question, i tryed King and EX King, i have a hard time using her, ppl say she's good, but i can't see how, please help me out. Thanks guys. Kensou Posted by Mummy-B on May 28th, 2001 04:53 AM: I'm not a great King user, but normal King is much better IMO. I see King as like, the Shoto of the Ratio 1's - I think she is most balanced and versitile or the Ratio 1's. She has good combos, maintains good pressure, can adjust her game strategy to meet specific characters, etc. In normal, I believe King's best weapons are Double Strike (qcf qcf+), Tornado Kick (qcb+k), oc.fk, Silent Flash (qcb qcb+k), j.lk (man this things has RIDICULOUS priority), and sometimes standing fierce kick as an anti-air as Surprise Rose (DP+k) isn't a very reliable anti-air. One of the cool things about her is her punch throw. It's a multi-hit throw, so in the corner you can combo lots of things into it. Like, punch throw, fierce kick Surprise Rose will combo. Punch throw, Silent Flash will combo. In EX mode, punch throw, Level 3 Double Strike will combo. This all I really got for King... If you want a detailed overview of how to use her moves I can try, but like I said, I'm no King expert... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on May 28th, 2001 04:28 PM: I use ex king cuz of her easy combos c Short x 3 XX qcb + K Posted by Mummy-B on May 28th, 2001 05:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Can anyone a complete, detailed discriptionon Iori in Cvs1 and Ia little preview of what he plays like CvS2 along with moves he will have, how much damage he will, what ratio he is best in, what groove suits him best, and in-depth vs strats for everyone in the game ALONG with a 2 page essay saying why you think he is the best. This is from PSX2000 - much props to him for his hard work. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ IORI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SPECIAL MOVES: Shiki·Yami Barai/Fireball Qcf+P This is IORI primary way to attack from far away it isn't the best fireball in the game but it's a low fireball on the ground something different though this move can be blocked high. This move is pretty much the set up irori uses for everything else he has in his game plan to win. Shiki·Oniyaki/Dark Thrust Dp+P Another good move you need to use this uppercut a hell of a lot in this game its not as strong as it was in king of fighter 96 but it's better than kyos uppercut in capcom vs. snk. Shiki·Aoi Hana/Deadly Flower Qcb+P (x3) Another one of up close moves this move can be done 3 times the first 2 hits can block either way but the last one has to be blocked high or you will get smashed this move does good damage and if you stop after the second hit your recovery is pretty good after that if the third hit is blocked your chances of getting hit back is pretty good from the time it takes to recover from this move. Shiki·Kototsuki In/Crescent Moon Shade Hcb+K Another rush moves for irori. A fireball best follows this move if the fireball connects with your opponent so will this. Don't be abusing this move to much because it can backfire the recovery isn't as good as iroris in kof 96 come to think about it irori was god in king of fighters 96. Kuzu kaze/Scum Gale Hcb, f+P (close) This is a really good move that expert irori players learn to master early because it helps you disrupt a blocking or turtling opponent witch you will see a lot of in capcom vs. snk. From this move you can go into a lot of things. Make sure you learn this move early and fast. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPER MOVES ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Shiki·Ya Sakazuki/Drunken Grail Gasher (AKA Eight Wine Cups) Qcb, hcf+P (hold P to delay) Here are some details to the super Level 1: Shoots one pillar. Level 2: Shoots four pillars. Level 3: Shoots eight pillars, nearly goes full screen. This to me is IORI most valuable super against beginners and even good players if you learn to use this right. If you hit this super at max you have enough to charge up your bar if you're in snk ism and do a level 3 maiden masher. Witch is very devastating. Also the longer your opponent is stuck in the wine cup super the more damage he takes. Also if he blocks he gets pushed back from it. Most players win cup and charge while the wine cups hit. Shiki·Ya Otome/Maiden Masher (AKA Eight Shrine Maiden) Qcf, hcb+P This is iori's basic rushing super witch does quite a lot of damage and is pretty darn fast if you can sucker your opponent into poking or throwing out a attack like a meaty one close range this will pick them off and do good damage. Typically I don't like rush supers but this is one of the few that I find very good due to the facts above on his other super witch tie in really well together. STRATEGY Now onto strategy and tactics when playing with irori in capcom vs snk. I prefer to play him very cautiously similar to the way I play my ryu. If you wanna play a rush down technique then I suggest that you play orochi iori. If you played iori in king of fighters a lot and loved him in king of fighters 96 think of this as a more toned down version of that with a weaker uppercut and a tab bit slower on recovery of some of his moves. 1.When playing irori learn to establish the ground control with his fireball I prefer to use the jab fireball cause it's a tad slower than most of the other fireballs in the game and is low so your opponent has to block it or jump wich guarantes you 1 of 2 things. Block damage or your opponent jumping or rolling at times. Now this is what you want you want to establish the game to a point where you abuse your fireballs to where your opponent gets perdicatable and and you punish them with his maiden masher super or his cresent moon shade. This is a old old iori king of fighters tactic that carried on into capcom vs snk. 2. If the fireball connect then do the same thing as mentioned above the cresent moon shade or if your point blank then u can chain into a deadly flower. I know this sounds crazy but I have gotten this to work. The jab fireball puts your opponent into a stun animation similar to dhalsim jab yoga fire. And if you have a super use it this is the alternate way of chaining it with iori. 3.Cross overs!!! Learn them iori has some of the best in the game and that makes him more dangerous cause they help him chain in his super I think iori is probably the only character in the game that can chain in his rush super so easily compared to the others.Ussually I will cross over then hit them with a short then throw them it takes them by surprise every time cause there expecting me to complete the combo while there blocking but I learned to just throw them to make them keep guessing wich is good cause eventually they will guess wrong and I will punish them very bad for it. 4.Sweep!!! another one of irori vicious moves it's a bit slow but it has a very verry far range in this game and is so good for poking and ground control that I heavily use it when I see a opening to use it. After a blocked sweep I tend to use his uppercut with weak punch.I never uppercut with hard punch because its pointless and leaves you open. Very big no no. 5.You need to learn to combo with irori if you don't then don't play him think of him as the ken more than a ryu type he can seriously do a ton of damage with his combos so if you don't learn them then stick with kyo this aint your character. 6.The deadly flower learn to play with this move I tend to poke with some jabs then go into it and I don't rush doing all the motions ill do each one very slowly to see if my opponent starts any joy stick movements and such. If he does then ill do another motion if not ill stop at the second motion and then wait to see if he thinks he can poke me and then ill uppercut him with weak punch. 7.Iori command throw is another solid move wich I think is probably his third important thing that all expert iori players need to master and learn to make this character tournament worthy. I find that this move is awesome cause it punishes turtles and lets you set up for things like supers. 8.Wine cups this super is his money super it a pain in the but for the big characters to deal with and most players try to roll and mess up what I tend to do is charge up and nail them with a super. Now some basic iori players will power up to level 3 and then use the super thinking max damage if my iori is facing a bunch more characters I will charge till I am almost max then use the super then all I have to do is charge less than a second and fire another wine cups .See doing this eliminates breaking like a offensive pattern I have going and leaves me less open to a rush down from my opponent. I notice a lot of iori players not doing this and just rush for the level 3 right away . Then again it could be preference from the player versus the character. 9.I always like to play irori in snk ism I think it benfits him more due to the wine cups its escapable but in tournaments I notice players make a ton of mistakes against it and it always smart to use snk to me for this character I tend to use him in capcom groove for fun here and there but in the end I use him in snk ism. Some side notes to iori would be to make sure you team him up with someone that can also benefit from snk ism. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on May 28th, 2001 05:03 PM: ... and here are his combos. I don't know much anything about Iori so I went searching for you for the best info that I could. Props ot James Chen for this. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ I o r i Y a g a m i hukushuu no shi en __________________________________________________ ___________________________ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ [01][19 hit] -- SNK Groove MAX Ura Hyaku Hachi Shiki: Ya Sakazuki |5 hit|, s.HP XX MAX Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (qcb,hcf + P, s.HP XX qcf,hcb + P) [02][16 hit] -- Capcom Groove Level 1 Ura Hyaku Hachi Shiki: Ya Sakazuki |3 hit|, s.HP XX Level 2 Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (qcb,hcf + LP, s.HP XX qcf,hcb + HP) [03][15 + 01 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Opponent in corner. Iori 1/4 screen away. c.HK, LP Hyaku Hachi Shiki: Yami Barai, s.HP XX Level 3/MAX Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (c.HK, qcf + LP, s.HP XX qcf,hcb + PP) [ from "James Chen Combo Exhibition #1" ] [04][12 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Stand close. Kuru Kaze, c.LP > c.LK XX Level 1 Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (hcb,f + P, c.LP > c.LK XX qcf,hcb + LP) [ from "James Chen Combo Exhibition #2" ] *[05][12 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Stand close. s.LP > s.LP > s.LP XX Level 1 Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (s.LP > s.LP > s.LP XX qcf,hcb + LP) [ from Angel of Rage ] *[06][11 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Stand close. s.LP > s.HP XX Level 1 Kin Sen Ni Hyaku Juu Isshiki: Ya Otome (s.LP > s.HP XX qcf,hcb + LP) [ from Angel of Rage ] [07][06 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ c.LP > c.LK XX HP Hyaku Ni Juu Nana Shiki: Aoi Hana (x3) (Jump HK \/ c.LP > c.LK XX qcb + HP (x3)) [08][05 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Stand close. Kuzu Kaze, s.HP XX HP Hyaku Ni Juu Nana Shiki: Aoi Hana (x3) (hcb,f + P, s.HP XX qcb + HP (x3)) [09][05 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HP \/ s.HP XX HP Hyaku Ni Juu Nana Shiki: Aoi Hana (x3) (Jump HP \/ s.HP XX qcb + HP (x3)) [10][05 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HP \/ s.HP XX HP Hyaku Shiki: Oni Yaki (Jump HP \/ s.HP XX f,d,df + HP) [11][04 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove j.HK \/ s.HP XX HK Ni Kyaku Juu Ni Shiki: Kotozuki In (Jump HK \/ s.HP XX hcb + HK) [12][03 hit] -- Capcom or SNK Groove Full screen away. LP Hyaku Hachi Shiki: Yami Barai, HK Ni Kyaku Juu Ni Shiki: Kotozuki In (qcf + LP, hcb + HK) - As soon as the Ya Sakazuki hits, immediately start charging the super meter again. But the time the meter if full, the Ya Sakazuki should be scoring the fourth or fifth hit. - The c.HK is there to make the Yami Barai hit the back of the opponent; thus making it hit late. It'll travel through the opponent and only hit when they are fully at their feet again. That gives Iori enough time to stand and attack with a s.HP that will combo after the Yami Barai's hit. - The Kuzu Kaze only stuns the opponent for a split second after Iori switches sides, so you have to hit them with the s.HP quickly. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Sho 2 on May 28th, 2001 07:31 PM: Thank you very much Mummy B. This great! I hope I get better because of these posts. I feel that I lose a lot because I suck at Cross-ups and that Kuzu Kaze/Scum Gale move, I just can't seem to do that hcb,f motion. Do you know a good way of doing it. Thanks again! This will also help me on my Iori research for CvS2. I sure hope he gets the Nail Gale (DP+K) and Super Nail Gale (QCF,QCF+K) or becomes the 96 Iori (Godly Iori) again but more on that later. P.S. Great Work on the Morrigan Strat Posted by Mummy-B on May 29th, 2001 02:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Thank you very much Mummy B. This great! I hope I get better because of these posts. I feel that I lose a lot because I suck at Cross-ups and that Kuzu Kaze/Scum Gale move, I just can't seem to do that hcb,f motion. Do you know a good way of doing it. Thanks again! This will also help me on my Iori research for CvS2. I sure hope he gets the Nail Gale (DP+K) and Super Nail Gale (QCF,QCF+K) or becomes the 96 Iori (Godly Iori) again but more on that later. P.S. Great Work on the Morrigan Strat Well, as far as the command throw move goes, I am pretty consistent with it because I am used to EX Yamazaki. THe best way I can explain it is to start the hcb motion and then hit foward the same time you hit punch. Keep practicing, because it's all just a matter of conditioning. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Chunnnerv on June 1st, 2001 07:41 AM: Is this thread dying out or something? I hope not as it's been a great thread! GemInite: well Jay and I tied for 25th in CVS at ECC6. I was expecting to do better but the bracket screwed me up. My 2 losses ended up being to Sanford Kelly and Eddy Lee both from New York I believe. I know you use EX-King so I thought I'd share some info on how I saw the New York people dominate with EX-King and EX-vice.(including Justin Wong as well as the two people I lost to ). A lot of the New York people used the exact same team of EX-King,EX-vice,Dhalsim, and Blanka. But the reason they won is mainly due to King and Vice. The key to mind games starts with knocking their opponent down. So they do a lot of King's df. roundhouse's as it is safe if blocked and has very nice range. Once they get you down you are in a LOT of trouble. They time King's ( Vice's ) jump in to be intensionally early. But they time it just before you get up. Then they either start the jab kicks for her combo or immediately throw you when they land. I know this sounds like basic strategy but it's all in the timing of the jump. As you are getting up, they have timed the jump so that you cannot tell if they are going for the combo or the throw. They don't even use EX-king's supers, they put her first on their 4 ratio 1 team's to build supers for their other characters. This mind game they played was the main reason for the New Yorkers dominating on Saturday. I don't know if any of you have heard but between Justin,Eddy,Sanford,Arturo they had over a 99 game winning streak. The sick thing was that EX-King by herself ( without using any supers )was taking out team's. Many of the opponent's weren't even getting to their second ratio 1! If any of you on this thread were at ECC6 you know what I'm talking about. Anyways GemInite ,I'm sure Jay will be getting a copy of the tape for CVS and you can see what I'm talking about for yourself. I hope this helps anyone going to the Midwest or B5, as I think you will be seeing a lot of EX-king's and EX-vice's using this mind game. It really doesn't sound like much I know, but it was damn annoying when used properly. Plus I don't like 4 ratio 1 team's in CVS as I think they are too strong ( damage between the ratio's isn't properly balanced IMO ) Posted by Chunnnerv on June 1st, 2001 07:52 AM: I forgot to mention that my Chun Li did in fact do extremely well against the top players I played ( Sanford and Eddy ). I was always able to take out at least two of their 4 ratio one's, sometimes almost three of them! Since I posted a lot of Chun Li stuff I thought I'd better mention this so you all don't think I was talking a bunch of B.S. The reason I lost these matches was because of my other characters. So I hope some of you give her a chance as I believe she is still one of the best characters in CVS ( except against Ryu shudder! ). Posted by Mummy-B on June 1st, 2001 11:34 AM: Actually Chun Li is very strong. I was using her the other day and I really don't know how to play her that great, but I using the Terry Rising Tackle strategy - roll or double roll/Tenshou Kyaku and it works so well on people, as well as hitting both punch buttons together that I learned from jchensor to pressure in the corner. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 1st, 2001 03:10 PM: Chun: I never use Kings c RH cuz a lot of the time ive missed i get punished. But i'll try it out Posted by GemInite on June 1st, 2001 03:18 PM: chun: didnt any wake up moves work against king? Posted by Urotsukidoji on June 1st, 2001 10:16 PM: Chun: While you're on the subject of Chun-Li...this may sound like a sad scrubby question(and it is), but, anyway... If I'm playing a mostly ground-based character(I'm thinking of balrog when I write this), I can't figure out what to do to Chun. Her jumping short will outprioritize pretty much anything I throw at her. If I roll to evade her jump kick, I'm too far away from her to do anything(and I think she will recover first, anyway), and I'm back where I started. Since you're on the other end(playing chun li) I was wondering how people get past her simple tactics like her unholy jump short. Also, about the EX-king strategy you saw at ECC6...let me see if I got this right. You're saying they would knock their opponent down, then time their jump kick so that it would barelly whiff before the opponent got up. From there they would either do her combo or go for the throw. The characters with good wake-ups could punish this, couldn't they? What about delayed get ups? I'd love to hear more about this, so if you have more details, please post 'em. Thanks a lot. __________________ I am a man possessed by many demons--polite demons that would open the door for a lady carrying too many parcels-- BUT DEMONS NONETHELESS! Posted by Chunnnerv on June 1st, 2001 10:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Urotsukidoji Chun: The characters with good wake-ups could punish this, couldn't they? What about delayed get ups? I'd love to hear more about this, so if you have more details, please post 'em. Thanks a lot. Actually Balrog is a very good character to use against Chun. The real secret to giving a good Chun Li player problems is to control your distance well. Balrog's ( and other characters ) df. fierce from the proper distance will beat Chun's jumping short all the time. Just try not to let the Chun Li player get to the range where her jumping short will cross you up. Also Balrog can easily keep Chun away with his far reaching and high priority s. and cr. fierce. By using these punches you keep the Chun Li player far enough away that they cannot get the distance right to try to cross you up. The only way for them to try to cross you up then, is to super jump. Remember that super jumps leave you in the air longer so take advantage of this. As soon as you see Chun Li super jump ( forced to super jump because of your distance control ) roll under her and fierce punch her in the back. You should find that this works well against Chun players. So just out "normal" move Chun Li players. Try not to use Balrog's roll and charge punches out of the blue as this is what they are hoping for in order to punish you. As for your and GemInite's question about using wake ups to punish these tactics. I'm sure your well aware that any character with a rapid jab or short can basically stay right next to you when you wake up and it is very difficult to counter them without supers. They timed the jumps so well that it was like they were mashing the jabs right beside you the whole time. I forgot to mention that they also sometimes jumped in and did nothing at all. Especially if they suspected a wake up super or shoryuken. Then they would punish you with the combo afterwards. If it was against a character like EX-vice who has a grab super, they would sometimes fake you out by jumping straight up at the last second and punishing any whiffed supers. It is true that once in a while they guessed wrong and ate supers. But the number of times that their opponent guessed wrong, far outweighed the number of times that they got punished. You really had to see it live to appreciate how annoying it was. Posted by GemInite on June 2nd, 2001 05:52 AM: rat bastard american ex-king's Posted by puzzlefite on June 2nd, 2001 07:10 AM: Has anyone ever said this.... Hey....I haven't seen anyone post this! If someone has sorry! For people that go for jump-ins with shorts and try to mix up combos with throws, a good way of stopping them is to just jam on the shorts and jabs and hold down back/back. (Only applies to characters with rapid jabs or shorts!) If they go for the throw, you'll nail them usually because the throw has starting frames. If they go for the combo, it's completely blocked. That's why I use Balrog so much. Jabs easily chain into the Dash Punch for mega damage! Only problems is people with Super Throws and Special Throws. Otherwise, I've only gotten punished a few times for doing this cuz it's hella hard to hit a short or jab! I have a question. After reading the throwing forum, we decided that special throws only have 1 frame before you're actually grabbed. If that was true, then how come if you do Short into Spinning Pile Driver, people can escape by jumping from a ducking position? Isn't there one frame from ducking into standing before jumping? So in theory, if I do a Drill with Yamazaki at the precise moment your get-up animation ends, I should be able to beat out all your attacks (except the ones that have priority)? Correct? Thanks. I was just a little confused at the matter. Gon Liu Posted by GemInite on June 3rd, 2001 03:28 AM: puzzle: there is slight delay with command throws with Gief, Yam theres less delay Posted by Mummy-B on June 3rd, 2001 08:52 AM: Zangief does have a bit of lag. Yamazaki has even less lag. Logically, you can do Drill to catch the person as they get up, but all they have to do is jump away. It's too difficult to time something like that. They have to be in the standing animation for a few frames longer than it takes for them them to stand up and go into a jump. So, they are not vulnerable before a jump long enough for a catch with Drill, however, you may be able to do it with a Level 3. Best thing to do is to find something to induce Block Stun (like a j.lk) then go right into a Level 3 Drill because they can't move or outprioritize it. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Saint Eva on June 3rd, 2001 02:14 PM: Re: Has anyone ever said this.... quote: Originally posted by puzzlefite I have a question. After reading the throwing forum, we decided that special throws only have 1 frame before you're actually grabbed. If that was true, then how come if you do Short into Spinning Pile Driver, people can escape by jumping from a ducking position? Isn't there one frame from ducking into standing before jumping? So in theory, if I do a Drill with Yamazaki at the precise moment your get-up animation ends, I should be able to beat out all your attacks (except the ones that have priority)? Correct? Thanks. I was just a little confused at the matter. Gon Liu This applies to all normal, special, and super throws: You can't grab a character if they are in hit or guard stun. Someone else posted this but jumping from a standing position is instant, while there is a 1 frame delay when you jump from a crouch. Now, if special and super throws have a 1 frame window before you are grabbed and you are crouching when you see Yamazaki's hand go up for the Drill you will be grabbed even if you are doing nothing and holding up/back. This is what I think, so if anyone else has comments, feel free to add to this. __________________ Safety Tip of the Day: If someone shows you their privates, the best thing to do is run away and laugh. Posted by shadowcharlie on June 3rd, 2001 02:58 PM: is iori's dasg grab basicly rugals gash grab(god press)?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Bastion on June 3rd, 2001 03:54 PM: Hi. Haven't been here in a while... Yesterday my Blanka ran into a Balrog player, and I couldn't find a single way for Blanka to even do 50% damage. The Blanka ball is completely out of the question, you can only use the jab version to fake out and go for a slide. But his slide is slow and Balrog rolls quickly and recovers faster. Balrog isn't a attack fromthe air character so using the super as anti-air is out of the question, I tried using it the second he did a dashing punch hoping my level 2 had enough invincible frames...it doesn't. Anyone have any sugestions? Or iss this a match I should leave to Dhalsim? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Mummy-B on June 3rd, 2001 06:22 PM: O_o That IS a pretty tough match. The best thing I can tell you is try to close in on him for the air... poke alot and keep him under pressure and don't let him close in on you. I think your best bet is use the complete MAXIMUM range on his oc.fp (the slide punch) and poke so that you can't be punished and the c.fk and try your best to punish blocked Charging Punches with like his bite throw or something. I really think you'd have an easier time letting Dhalsim handle that, because a good Boxer player will definately give you alot of problems with Blanka. -> Oh yeah, need opinion. I am using SNK Groove Cammy, EX Yuri, and Morrigan. I want to know if I should sub out Cammy for normal King or not, I am really solid with them both. I usually play normal King with EX Yamazaki. Opinion? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 3rd, 2001 06:43 PM: Mummy: Why SNK groove? i dont see any advantage for SNK on your team cept morrigan. If you can use both cammy and king just alternate Posted by Mummy-B on June 3rd, 2001 06:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Mummy: Why SNK groove? i dont see any advantage for SNK on your team cept morrigan. If you can use both cammy and king just alternate Well, I don't really use any of thier supers anyway, and when they get to critical is when I can just use them for free and combo like crazy. EX Yuri is really abusable in SNK I think, I like to be able to charge her up and be able to use it whenever I want... Cammy I only use her Level 3 Spindive Buster so no biggie... King I use her Level 1 Silent Flash -> Level 1 Silent Flash combo alot. I like to do be able to combo the supers alot with them when I can. EX Yuri's Rush super as a wake-up reversal is incredible, it beats out every single limb that I have ever encountered used as a meaty. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 3rd, 2001 06:56 PM: mummy: IMO i would use king cuz of the easy trip into super and double strike for chip damage Posted by Mummy-B on June 4th, 2001 01:28 PM: Hmmm... and now the question is, since my Cammy was tuned to destory Guile unmercifully, King doesn't do as good as a job as Cammy IMO... or at least, not with my personal experience with her. I can handle my own with King against Nakoruru, but do you happen to have any Anti-Guile strats with King by any chance? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 4th, 2001 02:40 PM: Well yes cammy is a great guile killer but IMO i think king is better overall Posted by GemInite on June 4th, 2001 03:12 PM: just play the patience game with double strikes / anti air. When ever guile booms i roll trip XX super. Posted by puzzlefite on June 4th, 2001 07:07 PM: About King Is it better to roundhouse into King's Super, or do a short, short? Posted by Mummy-B on June 4th, 2001 07:30 PM: Well, I guess it really depends on who you're playing against. Someone like Guile, it's pretty risky to try and get in that close to do a short short and buffer the Silent Flash. Can you combo the Silent Flash after King's oc.fk (the sliding kick) or just her roundhouse? __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Ken Takizawa on June 4th, 2001 08:05 PM: quote: Well, I guess it really depends on who you're playing against. Someone like Guile, it's pretty risky to try and get in that close to do a short short and buffer the Silent Flash. King is very strong up close, it's just mid range she doesn't do well at. Cr. roundhouse one of her best pokes because its very fast, buffers into venom strike, and if you connect, you get to start chipping them (double strike). 1) cr. short, cr. short, cr. roundhouse -> venom strike 2) cr. fierce, cr. roundhouse -> venom strike up close, these are very good sequences to create distance. Despite cr. short not linking into cr. roundhouse, if your opponent pokes inbetween, they'll usually eat cr. rh. 3) 2 or 3 x cr. short -> short tornado kick this is a good sequence for applying pressure. If you sense your opponent wants to hit you after the tornado kick, silent flash. If they decide to sit and wait, repeat. quote: Can you combo the Silent Flash after King's oc.fk (the sliding kick) or just her roundhouse? You can buffer silent flash off cr. roundhouse. Whether you can buffer silent flash off oc. roundhouse depends on the distance. It doesn't buffer if when you hit your opponent you've gone the full distance of the slide. You need to be closer than that. The best way to gauge the distance is to go to training mode and try it out. Hope that helps If you got any questions more questions on King or anyone else, just pm me. Ken Posted by shadowcharlie on June 4th, 2001 09:25 PM: mummy:what is the best thing to do when people jump into your rugal, genocide cut or kaser wave? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on June 5th, 2001 12:55 AM: Id go for genocide cutter Posted by Mummy-B on June 5th, 2001 07:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie mummy:what is the best thing to do when people jump into your rugal, genocide cut or kaser wave? Depends on the distance. If you can catch them before they're up in your face, or if you're prepared for them, Kaiser Wave is the best controlling tactic. Overall, Kaiser Wave. If you don't have a chance to Kaiser Wave, or you've sorta lost control a bit and they close in on you, use a fierce Genocide Cutter - Genocide Cutter is not that great priority-wise, and at lk version it can get stuffed if it's not timed right. Timing is the key on that move, totally. Not to mention the fact that it's a horrible Wake-Up DP. If they are near or at cross up range, don't bother. Roll or Genocide Heaven, because nothing else will stop it, he can't do anything. The best he can do is trade with a Genocide Cutter and that's a stretch. Genocide Cutter has a slow startup and lacks the priority to make up for it. That's why distance for Rugal is a must, he handles cross ups worse than Morrigan, that that's one of her major weaknesses. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on June 5th, 2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ken Takizawa King is very strong up close, it's just mid range she doesn't do well at. Cr. roundhouse one of her best pokes because its very fast, buffers into venom strike, and if you connect, you get to start chipping them (double strike). 1) cr. short, cr. short, cr. roundhouse -> venom strike 2) cr. fierce, cr. roundhouse -> venom strike up close, these are very good sequences to create distance. Despite cr. short not linking into cr. roundhouse, if your opponent pokes inbetween, they'll usually eat cr. rh. 3) 2 or 3 x cr. short -> short tornado kick this is a good sequence for applying pressure. If you sense your opponent wants to hit you after the tornado kick, silent flash. If they decide to sit and wait, repeat. You can buffer silent flash off cr. roundhouse. Whether you can buffer silent flash off oc. roundhouse depends on the distance. It doesn't buffer if when you hit your opponent you've gone the full distance of the slide. You need to be closer than that. The best way to gauge the distance is to go to training mode and try it out. Hope that helps If you got any questions more questions on King or anyone else, just pm me. Ken Good stuff. I'll try that out at the arcade next time I go. Which is probably tomorrow ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Bastion on June 6th, 2001 07:42 AM: Hey. Quick question. I was looking over the Florida invitational results and noticed that the people who used Dhalsim in the top 5 both used EX Dhalsim. I have always been under the impression that Normal was better. Anyone have any opinions on which version is greater? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by AudioProject on June 6th, 2001 07:44 AM: I'm kidna new to the forums so I have a few q's. What is buffering and how do you buffer throws or count frames or whatever it is you guys are talking about with special throws. What are crossups? I've been a heavy Ken user throughout the Sf games...how is he in CvS...any good or is he a lower level character. In training mode I have a hard time coming up with decent combos past fourhits (except with the hurricane kick). Is that about average for all characters or do I need ALOT more practice? I found this site a few days ago and its very addicting. Please help. __________________ Bringing acoustic assault... Posted by puzzlefite on June 6th, 2001 07:52 AM: EX Dhalsim is better! :) Bastion: For EX Dhalsim, I think those (medium) fierce and (medium) roundhouse attacks are killer. They do a little bit less damage but the speed and range of them are just killer. See for yourself. That's why Dhalsim is so annoying. You can literally do fierce, fierce, far fierce and if the opponenet jumps anytime in between they'll get wacked. Mix that up with the roundhouse kicks. Arg....I hate him so much. 3 different drills in air! Plus the Super yoga flame literally kills. It has less range than the normal Dhalsim super and less priority in air, but at Level 2 and greater it doesn't matter. Also level 2-3 connects after a Yoga Noogie. Standing back and Jab can antiair if opponent is right on top of you. Normal Dhalsim gets standing back and fierce. Well it's mostly preference. Each Dhalsim has a variety of different attacks making both quite devastating. Supposedly the best Ratio 1 there is. :-p I hate him. The only reason I use him is cuz he's so annoying. Oh yea the duckig toward fierce that hits people during fireballs (fireball flys over your head) clean hit!! Pisses everyone off. Posted by AmakusaShiroTokisada on June 6th, 2001 07:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie mummy:what is the best thing to do when people jump into your rugal, genocide cut or kaser wave? Use standing roundhouse or the genocide cutter. The genocide cutter actually has dp priority in the middle frames. To illustrate this, place Ryu and Rugal adjacent to each other. Start the genocide cutter a split second first and the two characters will pass through each other without hitting. Also the dark barrier and the level 3 god press have anti-air applications. __________________ Et lux perpetua! Posted by Bastion on June 6th, 2001 08:31 AM: Actually, after posting I got off my ass and warmed up my Dreamcast. I think when I first added Dhalsim to my team I was torn between Normal and EX. I choose because his supers to me seemed more useful at level one, and I had Blanka on my team so I needed to save at least two levels for him. I'm looking at EX Dhalsim now, and I feel him extra normals make up for the loss of his supers (actually I never even really used the supers that much with him anyway). What I don't understand yet is what is his anti-air? My worst match with Dhalsim is against King and Cammy, and you NEED that b+FP cause they are always trying to get on top of you. You said standing back and jab was EX's anti-air but it seems to be the same as s.JP, your talking about the chop right? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Bastion on June 6th, 2001 08:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by AudioProject I'm kidna new to the forums so I have a few q's. What is buffering and how do you buffer throws or count frames or whatever it is you guys are talking about with special throws. What are crossups? I've been a heavy Ken user throughout the Sf games...how is he in CvS...any good or is he a lower level character. In training mode I have a hard time coming up with decent combos past fourhits (except with the hurricane kick). Is that about average for all characters or do I need ALOT more practice? I found this site a few days ago and its very addicting. Please help. Buffering...I can't remeber if this is the same as two-in-ones or not. Someone should clear this up for the both of us. I believe buffering is like comboing "c.SK, c.SK, c.SK, c.RK" I think it's what they call it when you combo a normal move into its self. Not exactly sure. Cross-ups are when you jump just a little bit over your opponent and stick out a normal move (most usually a j.SK). The j.SK still connects although you are almost on the other side of your opponent. All this can be hard to block and a bit confusing for your opponent. Ken is I'd say lower 2nd tier. I think thats fair. He has a few things going for him but in general Ryu is much better. SHIN-SHO-RYU-KEN!! The average real combo is something like jump-in j.SK, land c.SK x 2, c/s.FP two-in-one into a special move. Its hard to say cause obvioulsy Zangief isn't going to follow that pattern but your right, combos in actual matches (with out super combos) don't usually exceed 5 hits. Yes you need more practice, everyone always needs more practice. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Mummy-B on June 6th, 2001 10:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bastion Actually, after posting I got off my ass and warmed up my Dreamcast. I think when I first added Dhalsim to my team I was torn between Normal and EX. I choose because his supers to me seemed more useful at level one, and I had Blanka on my team so I needed to save at least two levels for him. I'm looking at EX Dhalsim now, and I feel him extra normals make up for the loss of his supers (actually I never even really used the supers that much with him anyway). What I don't understand yet is what is his anti-air? My worst match with Dhalsim is against King and Cammy, and you NEED that b+FP cause they are always trying to get on top of you. You said standing back and jab was EX's anti-air but it seems to be the same as s.JP, your talking about the chop right? I'm no Dhalsim expert, and I know I am getting repetitive with this but I'll say it again: You can't let them in close if you're using Dhalsim (unless you've got something prepared for them). His crouching fierce punch (or whatever button it is, where he lays down and extends his arm straight out) punishes just about any limb and does wonderfully poking underneath fireballs, given that it's not someone like EX Kyo, Terry, Rugal, and Geese who all have ground-based fireballs. Standing short (? the one where his leg extends out 45 degrees or something) counters air attack from WAY out. If you let them in too close, Dhalsim doesn't have many options but roll, Super, or throw. One of his downsides. I think Terry is actually one of his hardest matches IMO, more than Guile even. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 6th, 2001 02:44 PM: EX-Sims anti air is standing fierce (headbutt) Remember sim has an air taunt it can save your life sometimes. Posted by GemInite on June 6th, 2001 02:46 PM: Ex- Sim also has a 4 hit combo that starts from the air, i forget how to do it ask CHUNNERY he uses him a lot Posted by GemInite on June 6th, 2001 02:51 PM: Bastion: Buffering is represented by XX on the forums. e.g. as you do a c Medium kick do the motion for a fireball. Posted by Tr3nt on June 7th, 2001 12:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bastion Hey. Quick question. I was looking over the Florida invitational results and noticed that the people who used Dhalsim in the top 5 both used EX Dhalsim. I have always been under the impression that Normal was better. Anyone have any opinions on which version is greater? The reason for EX over normal is because of his Throw into level 2 and 3, the damage is huge. He does lack a soild anti air though, but i think it's a fair trade. His normals are also much quicker, which makes getting in on him a pain in the ass. But from what i saw at the Florida Invitational, they were going all out offensive. Lk slide, Lk slide, quick jump into drill, cr. fierce xx fireball... stuff like that. All mixed in with his really fast kicks. Posted by GemInite on June 7th, 2001 02:12 AM: Tr3nt is correct Dhalsims attacks are extremly fast Posted by HoTLiNK on June 7th, 2001 04:38 PM: Ex Dhalsim can use his "high" yoga flame as an anti-air. However, that is only good when you KNOW your opponent will jump at you. I think his f+jab, or b+jab, which does that forward chop, can be used, but I can't recall if it has any priority. __________________ Testing, testing, treat you like a n***a locked down for child molesting, I'll f**k you up punk! (Xzibit) Posted by Mummy-B on June 8th, 2001 08:09 AM: Well, just information for you guys in case you didn't know already CvS Pro is not making a arcade debut in Japan, so I assume the same for the US. It comes out in Japan for the DC on the 14th of this month, and I already have a copy being delivered to me yay ^_^ __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Tuff Daddy on June 8th, 2001 05:34 PM: Well I'm back. Thanks to everyone for the strats for EX Terry. I am handing some serious ass with him now. Anywho, I finally got EX Beni and Evil Ryu. EX Beni is a monster! Any good strats on connecting his super grab? IIRC its not blockable. Second, what are the best times to teleport w/ evil Ryu? and can you connect a raging demon off a j.fierce? Thanks, Tuffy. __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by Tuff Daddy on June 8th, 2001 08:30 PM: -sonic bump- __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by shadowcharlie on June 8th, 2001 10:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Depends on the distance. If you can catch them before they're up in your face, or if you're prepared for them, Kaiser Wave is the best controlling tactic. Overall, Kaiser Wave. If you don't have a chance to Kaiser Wave, or you've sorta lost control a bit and they close in on you, use a fierce Genocide Cutter - Genocide Cutter is not that great priority-wise, and at lk version it can get stuffed if it's not timed right. Timing is the key on that move, totally. Not to mention the fact that it's a horrible Wake-Up DP. If they are near or at cross up range, don't bother. Roll or Genocide Heaven, because nothing else will stop it, he can't do anything. The best he can do is trade with a Genocide Cutter and that's a stretch. Genocide Cutter has a slow startup and lacks the priority to make up for it. That's why distance for Rugal is a must, he handles cross ups worse than Morrigan, that that's one of her major weaknesses. thanks man, others have said dark barrier too? how does that work do they just hit it and get knocked back a tad? iv had that happen before but find nothing useful about it as anti air?*confused*, also can you set up super fireball (sakuras)after a heavy uppercut in the cornner? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Mummy-B on June 9th, 2001 06:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie thanks man, others have said dark barrier too? how does that work do they just hit it and get knocked back a tad? iv had that happen before but find nothing useful about it as anti air?*confused*, also can you set up super fireball (sakuras)after a heavy uppercut in the cornner? Well, using Dark Barrier is kinda risky... Since it's relatively low, they have to doing the jump from pretty far out and thier limb has to be connecting to Rugal's mid section or lower, plus you have that ridiculous start up that you have to deal with. I don't use Dark Barrier for anything else but punishing rollers, or having fun with my friends when they use Yamazaki and we just return fireballs back and forth ^_^ I would suppose you're talking about regular Sakura. I am pretty certain that even if you're in the corner, her recovery from the fp version doesn't allow you to actually do a Shinkuu Hadouken afterward. Like you can only do a Shin Shoryuken with Ryu after a lp Shoryuken because trying it after a fp Shoryuken would be ridiculously retarded. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Mummy-B on June 9th, 2001 06:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy Well I'm back. Thanks to everyone for the strats for EX Terry. I am handing some serious ass with him now. Anywho, I finally got EX Beni and Evil Ryu. EX Beni is a monster! Any good strats on connecting his super grab? IIRC its not blockable. Second, what are the best times to teleport w/ evil Ryu? and can you connect a raging demon off a j.fierce? Thanks, Tuffy. I don't know about EX Benimaru because I don't use him at all (one of the very few characters that I don't use at all). Teleporting with Evil Ryu, you have to make sure that when you do it, you won't leave him open for punishment because he has lots of recovery time at the end of the teleport. The *only* time I use the teleport is when I'm in the EX Yuri trap, SNK Iori Wine Glass Trap, if I am cornered and they are pressuring me severely, because it sends me all the way across the other side of the screen to safety and they can't punish me from that distance. Um, well you CAN connect it off of a jumping fierce, but it's really hard. You have to do the command really really fast, I don't think even I can do it that fast and I counter with Morrigan's Darkness Illusion in the air which has to be done pretty fast. If you can find a way to input the Shun Goku Satsu command that fast, you're really really good. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by peetah on June 9th, 2001 08:43 AM: You can't connect the demon... Posted by Vigorous on June 9th, 2001 10:50 PM: Not sure if you guys posted an EX Balrog strategy yet. But can someone give me some advanced tactics with him? I know the basic combos and such, just wanna get more in depth with him. I never realized how powerful and effective he is. And since I play Ryu/Nak/Guile. SNK Groove is not that big of a deal anymore. Well, if I play with Ryu, I sacrifice the constant Supers for the ShinSho. BUT WHO WOULDNT?! peace. Posted by shadowcharlie on June 10th, 2001 03:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Well, using Dark Barrier is kinda risky... Since it's relatively low, they have to doing the jump from pretty far out and thier limb has to be connecting to Rugal's mid section or lower, plus you have that ridiculous start up that you have to deal with. I don't use Dark Barrier for anything else but punishing rollers, or having fun with my friends when they use Yamazaki and we just return fireballs back and forth ^_^ I would suppose you're talking about regular Sakura. I am pretty certain that even if you're in the corner, her recovery from the fp version doesn't allow you to actually do a Shinkuu Hadouken afterward. Like you can only do a Shin Shoryuken with Ryu after a lp Shoryuken because trying it after a fp Shoryuken would be ridiculously retarded. so stick to the lp? ok koo now i know you can combo god press off of two wp but is there anyhtinkg else? __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on June 10th, 2001 03:40 AM: Oh for EX-Beni cShort XX Super Throw, even if they block throw still connects Posted by GemInite on June 10th, 2001 04:02 AM: Rock looks like a character me and Mummy B will enjoy in CvS2 "rising tackle" Posted by Park on June 10th, 2001 05:12 AM: what this guy usually does is just a fireball in the air and on the ground another fireball it gets annoying for the oppenedt and when he rolls boom pull a super __________________ 2715 Posted by GemInite on June 10th, 2001 07:32 PM: Park: I see you're from toronto which arcade do you play at? Posted by GemInite on June 10th, 2001 07:33 PM: Anyone got EX-Raiden strats? whats his anti air? Posted by Mummy-B on June 10th, 2001 10:34 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie so stick to the lp? ok koo now i know you can combo god press off of two wp but is there anyhtinkg else? Well, unfortunately, Rugal isn't exactly the combo master. I don't know of very many combos, especially with his supers, that actually do decent damage - most of the time with Rugal, when you try to combo supers into one another, you waste meter because it's not as powerful as if you would just do a Level 2 or 3. For his normal moves, like I said before, he's really lagging and is not strong in close thus his combo ability is not very good. The best thing I can say to comboing his normal specials is good luck, because I just don't bother when I use him. quote: Rock looks like a character me and Mummy B will enjoy in CvS2 "rising tackle" Heck yeah. Rock is awesome. Raging Storm, Rising Tackle, Deadly Rave, a command throw, a counter move, he has it ALL, Rock is DEFINATELY one of my team members. Him and probably Cammy and Kyosuke or Morrigan, I heard she is even stronger in this one than she is in CvS. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 11th, 2001 01:08 AM: I would really like some EX raid stuff, Basic combos are fine. Posted by GemInite on June 11th, 2001 01:09 AM: oh and what is his best priority attack? jumping in. Posted by Mummy-B on June 11th, 2001 05:15 PM: Man, you know what, I don't have any idea about Raiden... but I know I saw a thread not long ago someone was asking for Raiden strats and jchensor helped him out - you might want to look it up... i am pretty sure it had "Raiden" in the thread's title. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 11th, 2001 06:33 PM: I saw that thread, there wasnt much info. EX raiden has 2 unblockable attacks. Posted by SilverGear on June 11th, 2001 07:15 PM: Iori. quote: Originally posted by LittleMajik Oh yeah, I like to hit people with the first two hits of Kyo's rusting eight, then throw them. I kinda do something like that as well with Iori. However I do it a tad bit different. If my opponent is blocking and I do Iori's QCB+Px3 special I'll do the first two motions STOP then while their still "blocking" I'll throw them instead of going for the 3rd QCB+P (since if the 3rd QCB+P is blocked you'll get hit due to the lag if blocked.) While on the topic of Iori here are some other little tid-bits I've picked up for him if anyone cares: When throwing Iori's Drunken Grail super (The columns) it may sometimes be best to follow up behind the pillars just in case your opponent tries to roll through them. If they do attempt to roll through them just simply perform a Standing Roundhouse kick...If you do it just right it will kick them back into the pillars stunning them (and if your using SNK Groove then that means lvl. 3 Maiden Masher time baby!). If you're going against Dhalsim try throwing the lvl. 3 Drunken Grails from the corner so he can't teleport behind you and the columns and burn your backside. If you're in the corner and he teleports he either: (A.) Teleport right into the Columns. (B.) Goes past the Columns and becomes open for an attack due to the lag of his teleportation move. (lvl. 1 Maiden Masher for all you SNK Groove users). Also when going against a Blanka user you can Connect a Level 2 and Level 3 RIGHT AFTER a Blocked Roll Special/Super attack. This also comes in handy seeng as they won't be able to block since you're plucking them right out of the air. On a side note, I suggest mastering Iori's combo of C. Short > C. Jab XX Maiden Masher it comes in handy Well that pretty much sums it up for me. Hope someone out there finds this of some use. ^^; __________________ SilverGear Proud leader of "The misfits". "My destiny is not to win, yet I cannot lose out of generosity." "I live in a mental state that would scare the hell out of most people."-Taken from personal notes. Posted by SilverGear on June 11th, 2001 07:18 PM: Raiden..... quote: Originally posted by GemInite oh and what is his best priority attack? jumping in. From what I've seen in tournament play his main Jump-In Attack is his Body Splash (Down and Punch I think.). __________________ SilverGear Proud leader of "The misfits". "My destiny is not to win, yet I cannot lose out of generosity." "I live in a mental state that would scare the hell out of most people."-Taken from personal notes. Posted by SilverGear on June 11th, 2001 07:32 PM: Iori2 quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie is iori's dasg grab basicly rugals gash grab(god press)?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? Hahahaha Hell no! Iori's can go under-projectiles (Super or Special) while Rugals cannot (However a Level 3 (and maybe level 2 not sure) does have some invincibility frames.). So to answer your question no not really. __________________ SilverGear Proud leader of "The misfits". "My destiny is not to win, yet I cannot lose out of generosity." "I live in a mental state that would scare the hell out of most people."-Taken from personal notes. Posted by Enk!ndu on June 11th, 2001 09:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite I would really like some EX raid stuff, Basic combos are fine. A Nasty Combo with EX-Raiden is, Body Splash (D+HP), D HP, Drop Kick (charge lk or hk) That takes off quite a bit of damage. You can also exchange the Drop kick and Input the super (d, d/f,f x2 +p)instead for an even nastier ammount of damage. Hope this helps. Oh and remember that the Green Spit does not cancel ANY fireballs at all! __________________ One thing you can't recycle is wasted time. Posted by Enk!ndu on June 11th, 2001 09:16 PM: And the first few frames of his body charge are invincible and can go through fireballs!! __________________ One thing you can't recycle is wasted time. Posted by Enk!ndu on June 11th, 2001 09:24 PM: Also, a crossup body splash (D+HP) followed by, two ducking LP's, one ducking HP, into the drop kick hands out hella damage. __________________ One thing you can't recycle is wasted time. Posted by Enk!ndu on June 11th, 2001 09:28 PM: And is roll is quick too! I double it up to get behind opponents and do his 360 throw (whatever the name of it is) my opponents usually try to sweep me after the first roll, but the second roll always puts me close enough behind them to 360 throw them. __________________ One thing you can't recycle is wasted time. Posted by LittleMajik on June 11th, 2001 09:44 PM: Silvergear, nice strats with Iori. I didn't know he could do the Kyo cheese also. I learned to combo his MM after crouch shorts, I have a hard time doing it off of jabs. Iori is one of my top characters and I'm considering using him at B5. If I use him with EX Balrog or Ryo I always pick SNK groove but with anyone else I use Capcom. __________________ "Banned in six states by the surgeon general, I'm known for being addictive sellin' dope subliminal/And I don't stop servin' like them fools at Denny's, like Julius Erving, Michael Jordan & Penny's/I go coast to coast with a dose of this realness, slappin' yo brain with this game can you feel this?/I flow like river water, ain't no n***a harder/Others that was rockin is forgotten like Jimmy Carter/But I'm gon' be around, just like hand me downs/ An old ass playa still pullin them panties down. Posted by Leviathan on June 11th, 2001 11:05 PM: Does anyone use Orochi Iori? He's so fr#*&@# fast that if he is good at mind games he can be pretty tough. Cross-ups are NASTY with him, since his jump is so quick, and then the simple 3 hit special of his REALLY hurts (he IS ratio 4) and the occasional DP super afterwards.. Try doing his 3 move special, but instead of doing the overhead move, just c.HK, it's super simple but works often enough.. I don't really know how to use him, but I'm sure there are tons of little strats you can use to mess with peopls head, since his speed is such an unusual thing to fight against __________________ "Heh heh heh, try again kid." Posted by Mummy-B on June 12th, 2001 04:24 AM: Um... the only real thing I know about him aside from the fact that he's fast as hell is that DP Desperation combos after like a cross-up lk -> c.lp -> c.lk -> qcb+p x2 at Level 2 and 3.... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by psx2000 on June 12th, 2001 05:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Oh for EX-Beni cShort XX Super Throw, even if they block throw still connects your wrong on this there able to jump out. __________________ "The werewolves, IN CONJUNCTION WITH The Saucer People, UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF The Reverse Vampires, are secretly forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner! We're through the looking glass here people." Milhouse Posted by psx2000 on June 12th, 2001 05:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy Well I'm back. Thanks to everyone for the strats for EX Terry. I am handing some serious ass with him now. Anywho, I finally got EX Beni and Evil Ryu. EX Beni is a monster! Any good strats on connecting his super grab? IIRC its not blockable. Second, what are the best times to teleport w/ evil Ryu? and can you connect a raging demon off a j.fierce? Thanks, Tuffy. here is some beni stuf Raijin Ken- I mainly use this to stop blanka balls and other rush attacks, I.E psycho crusher,things of that nature.Its not a move I will combo with much though. I'll explain why later.As for glitching with it I havent really used it in tourney play but the thought has crossed my mind depends on the situation if im low on health I wont chance it because i cant afford Dieing from it.I think the glitch works better with EX Benimaru do to his forward +LK. Taikuu Raijin Ken- Again another move I dont over use . I tend to use this only if the person persist on being a jump happy charecter. I havent had to many people constantly jump at me so i havent used it a whole .But its ready when needed. Shinkuu Katategoma- This move is so solid. Im telling you its under estimated by some players . Regular Benimaru can stop the move while its in animation by hitting all the buttons if im not mistaken it will cause him to stop immediatley. Most players I see just use this in there combos. Me I found a better use for this I found when people like to roll a lot behind more and try things like that . I use this . It stops people from rolling cause the second there roll ends there going to get wacked by this move and they will think twice about using it. Iai geri- O i love this move so much. I use it for a few reasons. One is because its so lightning fast and quick has almost 0 seconds of recovery time. It does ok damage nothing great. But it does decent damage. Also it stops rush in attacks also.And I use it to end all of his combos.And if im far away ill fire a few just to build a little bar if they want to turtle on me. Benimaru Collider- I really think im probably one of the only players that use this move. This move is a solid command throw for a lot of reasons. Damage is good. Builds a decent amount of super meter. And the move start up is like 1 frame of animation its lighting quick. You can catch a ton of oponents of guard by this move. I use it a lot off of a jump in or a crouching Short . FORWARD + LK - Another reason why i choose ex benimaru over regular benimaru. This ove lets him cover aboout a good 2-3 inches of the screen very fast.If it is blocked benimaru recovers fast enough so dont worry. Just dont use this move point blank learn the range on it. It helps to learn the range I kicked a ton of ryu players in the face when they attempted to use his fireballs. I ussually start benimaru first on my team to feel out what the guy style is like and he is also very annoying the way i play him. So if there trying to feel me out or even having a off day benimaru is going to be dam annoying.Ex Benimaru at times seems to get the shaft out of the top tier ratio 1 mainly cause people say o hes easy to stop and is a one a day charecter wich is totally not true. I feel he has enough to keep him deadly at all times. Some even say "benimaru is a one trick charecter that once a guy figures a way around his jumping attack game that he can waste any good benimaru player no matter what he does to try and stop him." James chen argued this by saying " ex benimaru has way more to his game then his jumping attacks" wich is so true. Ex benimaru has so much untapped potential it aint even funny. Let me start off with one of his most effective and annoying attacks. His jump Short. Man this jump kick is CRAZY! It has mad priority in the air and if timed right can beat even Shoryukens and razor kicks depending on where and when the jumping short was done. This move also sets up for a lot of things wich benimaru can abuse. 1.Down 3 shorts, HCF+kick this is my main primary combo does ok damage and irritates people like crazy. Even if they block ill use this . Also very eas to chain the whome combo uses the same button. Cant get any easier than that. 2.I ll go ussually try to hit short one time then walk up and throw. Ussually people get so used or adapted to hold blocking from my 3 shorts, into kick combos that I will walk up and throw them. This gets them every time ussually.From there they get paranoid and not sure exactly wich way to block or to deal with things. 3.I will go 3 shorts then roundhouse. From there I will pause then Forward +lk this will cause benimaru to do his running kick wich catches people off guard.And some players will tend to be doing a special I.E ryu fireball etc,etc and this kick is fast enough to kick them before there move gets off . Also if they block they try to sweep you. If done correctly there sweep will miss you and you can nail them again. This is another key to playing benimaru you must master this tech with him . Learn the ranges of his Forward +lk its very essential. 4.Short,Jab,Short,OCF+ punch I use this just to mess with there minds more cause there think wait hey thats something different. Ussually newbies fall for this then ill mix steps 2,3 in later for more fun. Notice how step 2,3 and are repeated in the mix of playing benimaru. 5. This is the cool one. I will jump short straight into his super. Its so fast on start up that they waiting for a blocked short or jab. That they will block and not have time to get away from my HCB , HCB + punch super grab i ussually tend to use this at level 3 for good damage and on a few situations like if im playin a guy i need to have his charecter killed asap then ill use it depnds on the situation and if my benimaru is about to die and if my next charecter can benefit more from a level 3. I.E blanka , ryu etc,etc. 6. Drill, Notice i Jump so much with a jump short? Well here is where the mix ups come in i jump and drill this thing is kinda hard to perdict where benimaru will land and thats the cool part if you get in deep go for a super grab or 3 down shorts . If not jump Forward +lk. 7. Jumping Fierce. This is a basic air shoryuken. Use this if they wanna test you in the air a lot i ussually use jump short cause it wins more but some times i use jump fierce depending on the charecter i fight against. 8.QCf +punch, i mainly use this to stop blanka balls, and rushes . It even stops burn knuckles . I wont combo with it to much. 9. Glitch - ah the benimaru glitch i think its pretty good if you can do it guaranted and got it down and if you are not almost dead when attempting it im slowly adding this into my play style another one of benimarus many weapons. HEHHEHEHEH. Its better with benimaru Ex cause u can do it off his forward and LK. 10.HCB + KICK , I use this to mainly stop the rolling and stuff. It works very good and helps elimates threats to benimaru. After playing benimaru a ton i ussually find he stops blanka easily cause blanka balls dont really touch him cause of his strong jump short. I think the only charecter that i had problems with when playing benimaru is ZENGEIF and EX YAMAZAKI. other than that it was to hard for benimaru to over come the battle This is my mini strat i guess you could call it for ex benimaru. Thanks for reading. PSX2000 matsouza@gte.net __________________ "The werewolves, IN CONJUNCTION WITH The Saucer People, UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF The Reverse Vampires, are secretly forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner! We're through the looking glass here people." Milhouse Posted by LittleMajik on June 12th, 2001 06:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Leviathan Does anyone use Orochi Iori? He's so fr#*&@# fast that if he is good at mind games he can be pretty tough. Cross-ups are NASTY with him, since his jump is so quick, and then the simple 3 hit special of his REALLY hurts (he IS ratio 4) and the occasional DP super afterwards.. Try doing his 3 move special, but instead of doing the overhead move, just c.HK, it's super simple but works often enough.. I don't really know how to use him, but I'm sure there are tons of little strats you can use to mess with peopls head, since his speed is such an unusual thing to fight against For some reason I found that his crossup is easily dp'd. Use him like a fast normal Iori. Speed and one super are the only legitimate differences. At least his combos hurt that much more since he's a R.4 __________________ "Banned in six states by the surgeon general, I'm known for being addictive sellin' dope subliminal/And I don't stop servin' like them fools at Denny's, like Julius Erving, Michael Jordan & Penny's/I go coast to coast with a dose of this realness, slappin' yo brain with this game can you feel this?/I flow like river water, ain't no n***a harder/Others that was rockin is forgotten like Jimmy Carter/But I'm gon' be around, just like hand me downs/ An old ass playa still pullin them panties down. Posted by LittleMajik on June 12th, 2001 06:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B Um... the only real thing I know about him aside from the fact that he's fast as hell is that DP Desperation combos after like a cross-up lk -> c.lp -> c.lk -> qcb+p x2 at Level 2 and 3.... That's only in the corner right? Cuz if it wasn't that would be sweet. __________________ "Banned in six states by the surgeon general, I'm known for being addictive sellin' dope subliminal/And I don't stop servin' like them fools at Denny's, like Julius Erving, Michael Jordan & Penny's/I go coast to coast with a dose of this realness, slappin' yo brain with this game can you feel this?/I flow like river water, ain't no n***a harder/Others that was rockin is forgotten like Jimmy Carter/But I'm gon' be around, just like hand me downs/ An old ass playa still pullin them panties down. Posted by Mummy-B on June 12th, 2001 06:37 AM: quote: Originally posted by LittleMajik That's only in the corner right? Cuz if it wasn't that would be sweet. At Level 2 I think it combos in the corner, at Level 3 I think it doesn't matter because the 2 hits from the qcb+p x2 and the first turn he does with the DP Desperation I think knocks them back far anyway... But I think at Level 3 it will combo anyway, I am very very very sure. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by LittleMajik on June 12th, 2001 06:49 AM: I know the DP desp. at any level works in the corner off of the qcb+p x 2. But I'll try the level three thing out of the corner. __________________ "Banned in six states by the surgeon general, I'm known for being addictive sellin' dope subliminal/And I don't stop servin' like them fools at Denny's, like Julius Erving, Michael Jordan & Penny's/I go coast to coast with a dose of this realness, slappin' yo brain with this game can you feel this?/I flow like river water, ain't no n***a harder/Others that was rockin is forgotten like Jimmy Carter/But I'm gon' be around, just like hand me downs/ An old ass playa still pullin them panties down. Posted by GemInite on June 13th, 2001 02:42 PM: Ugggh page 4. EX Raiden strats PLZ Posted by Tuff Daddy on June 13th, 2001 03:02 PM: Much thanks to psx2000 and everyone else that posted on ex beni. Thank a lot guys. Nice mini strat psx. __________________ Team Saikyo Forever! That was another luscious symphony of bone crushing sounds! Posted by Mummy-B on June 13th, 2001 08:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by GemInite Ugggh page 4. EX Raiden strats PLZ I don't think anyone uses him to be honest. Crap. I wish I knew someone who did.... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 13th, 2001 10:40 PM: Hmm maybe i'll be the first to post EX-Raiden strats once i play him in the arcade. Posted by shadowcharlie on June 14th, 2001 01:11 AM: Re: Iori2 quote: Originally posted by SilverGear Hahahaha Hell no! Iori's can go under-projectiles (Super or Special) while Rugals cannot (However a Level 3 (and maybe level 2 not sure) does have some invincibility frames.). So to answer your question no not really. xie xie __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by Shingro on June 14th, 2001 01:51 AM: What are your ppl's tactics with Ex-Yamazaki? I tend to find myself poking with standing RH and when they try to roll use either the RH throw (that kick recovers fast o_O) or poking with standing and crouching short.. Also when the crossups come out I tend to roll, in SNK mode I tend to get superities ~_~ his supers are just so good you know. ^_^* As far as I can tell his poking game is really good, but what does he do for anti air? o_O that C fierce seems a little... odd o_O his counter would be good except that crossups can pound it and then ppl start empty jumping.... do you use the special throw? Capcom or SNK? front or back? Boxers or briefs? o_O Ah well, work calls, and I must answer... thanks for any replies ^_^ __________________ Speed is the greatest power... especially when you have something to chase Posted by Chunnnerv on June 14th, 2001 09:32 AM: Hey GemInite, why do you want to learn EX Raiden for? Do you really think he can compete? Or you just want to learn him as a fun character. IMO his lunging unblockable is pretty useless, because your opponent can just crouch, and it will wiff from any range. Then they can punish you. The only uses I can see is if you roll under them and get them in the back before they land or to snag them out of a roll ( since they initiallly go into their standing animation ) Doesn't EX also lose his RDP+punch move? I don't know much about Raiden but I tried to learn him at one time and I found Normal Raiden to be more useful personally. I find his 2xhcb + punch a much more useful super ( anti-air ) then that EX rush super crap. Hopefully somebody out there can help you out, cause someone must use him right? __________________ unbeatable CVS strategy: Start all of your combos with the opponents start button. Then be prepared to fight him for real! hehehe! Posted by peetah on June 14th, 2001 09:39 AM: EX Raiden is tourney material... http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=23372 Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 02:19 PM: Chun: I see raiden with potential. The lunging unblockable is good against shotos. Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 02:20 PM: his shoulder charge also goes through fireballs. cHPxx Dropkick is too strong. Posted by Sho 2 on June 14th, 2001 03:10 PM: This may sound stupid but why do you people use EX Beni. I was wondering because use the Normal Beni morebut of course I can't do those damn Hcb,F and HCB,HCB moves. Crap. Posted by Mummy-B on June 14th, 2001 03:26 PM: OMG, EX Cammy is pretty damn awesome in CvS Pro. I never thought I would see that happen. She's Cammy without all the nearly useless special moves and an added Super... Shingro: For anti-air I use Sadomazo. I learned to split second time it so that by the time the limb is going to connect with EX Yamazaki's head the Sadomazo activates and counters them. Don't forget that he has a command throw too that is really strong. __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 05:47 PM: B&B combo for raiden is cJab x 3, c or s Short. Or jHP, cHP, Drop kick Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 06:35 PM: Alright im at my friends house so now i can post my 2 cents on raiden. The only reason im using him is as a shoto killer. Keep in mind I havent tested any strats on real people yet so I wouldent really use these strats quite yet. As JChen mentioned in another forum holding down HK for the drop kick is useful. It buffers only after a crouching fierce. SO when you get a chance cHP XX Drop kick. Raiden lacks useful buffered moves. His c fierce buffers into almost all his specials minus his DP move. One strat i like is c HP XX shoulder charge. The reason for this is the blocked fierce will push the opponent back, as he tries to punish you, you will be invincible frames then come out with the charge which seems to have quite a bit of priority. Raidens shoulder charge goes under all projectiles minus ground projectiles. The shoulder charge will also trade hits with rush supers. e.g. if guile does rush super he cannot hit you when you are in the charge frames where he says "ready" His crazy train can be combod off a single, jab, short, or fierce crouching or standing. The only other supr combo i have been able to pull off is cJab x 2, XX Crazy train any level. The DP move lacks range but it is a good tactic for people who happen to be standing there waiting for your attack. E.g. a king user who likes double strike , anti air. Raiden lacks any good anti air moves. His d+P in air is his best air priority move but i find jumping short XX 360 + K more useful. Oh and remember a single crouching fierce will always be better than the cJab x 3, s short. The rapid jabs are good to fool people cuz it does not look nearly as wuick as kings, or people like that. I'll probably try him in real later this week. Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 06:36 PM: Chun: Oh i wont be at VA tomorrow imma go with my cousin to see Tomb Raider. But I will be heading down saturday Posted by GemInite on June 14th, 2001 06:37 PM: Oh yeah and about raiden. I think either SNK or Capcom mode works well with him. Hes not much of a battery character but he does do big damage In SNK he can afford to charge cuz i dont see him as much of a rush down character Posted by Bastion on June 14th, 2001 11:23 PM: Hey, Whats the EX Blanka glitch? Say it mentioned for the first time in the result thread posted above. Whats it about? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by GemInite on June 15th, 2001 12:57 AM: I never use EX-Blanka so i have no idea. Posted by Mummy-B on June 15th, 2001 02:08 AM: Does anyone notice that if the other person is using SNK Groove and you taunt them, they gain about 25% of thier SNK meter in CvS Pro?... Or has anyone played it yet?.... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Bastion on June 15th, 2001 02:30 AM: Omni mentioned that in the cvspro thread. Does it really matter though? How much taunting did you do before? Does Dan's taunt after a trow add to the meter? __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by Mummy-B on June 15th, 2001 02:40 AM: Well I usually taunt as a psychological strategy, alot of people who get taunted seem to get very aggressive afterward and sometimes very careless so I take advantage of it. But it would kind of suck if I taunted them while they were in critical and I ate a Level 3 super... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by Chunnnerv on June 15th, 2001 04:47 AM: yeah taunting your friends is a lot of fun. The problem is that not too many of the taunts are funny. The only good one's are: Yuri's, Blanka's, Sakura's and Vice's ( looks cool if you go under fireballs with it! ). I love using Yuri's QCB+kick slap, then taunting people. Then if they get aggressive and try to jump and hit me. The taunt ends and I can double shoryuken them! l love Yuri! For CVS2 I hope more of the taunts are funny, cause the CVS one's really suck ( except for the above mentioned ) __________________ unbeatable CVS strategy: Start all of your combos with the opponents start button. Then be prepared to fight him for real! hehehe! Posted by Bastion on June 15th, 2001 05:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chunnnerv yeah taunting your friends is a lot of fun. The problem is that not too many of the taunts are funny. The only good one's are: Yuri's, Blanka's, Sakura's and Vice's ( looks cool if you go under fireballs with it! ). I love using Yuri's QCB+kick slap, then taunting people. Then if they get aggressive and try to jump and hit me. The taunt ends and I can double shoryuken them! l love Yuri! For CVS2 I hope more of the taunts are funny, cause the CVS one's really suck ( except for the above mentioned ) Ahhh...I like the none funny taunts . I just wish they would make them do something useful like in SF3 or at least let you cancel them by moveing forward or back like in Garou. Ken's taunt is too good, his is he only one I really get aggressive when I see. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by GemInite on June 16th, 2001 04:46 AM: EX-Raiden blows in real play Posted by Mummy-B on June 16th, 2001 10:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chunnnerv yeah taunting your friends is a lot of fun. The problem is that not too many of the taunts are funny. The only good one's are: Yuri's, Blanka's, Sakura's and Vice's ( looks cool if you go under fireballs with it! ). I love using Yuri's QCB+kick slap, then taunting people. Then if they get aggressive and try to jump and hit me. The taunt ends and I can double shoryuken them! l love Yuri! For CVS2 I hope more of the taunts are funny, cause the CVS one's really suck ( except for the above mentioned ) Actually, Dan's is funny just because it's Dan and he's making fun of Ryo. He has a win pose that imitates Yuri, it's so damn funny he look like the biggest gay person ever - picture Yuri's stance where she stand up straight and has one thumb up, and Dan goes "CHO yoyuuusu!" Yuri says "Yoyuuuusu!" which is like "All right!", and CHO means SUPER, so Dan is saying "SUPER all right!" ^_^ I think the coolest is his intro and ending with Sagat - Sagat laughs and Dan yells out "OYAGIIII" (DAAAAAAD!) and IF he wins (emphasis on IF), it sounds like he starts crying and he says "YATTAZE OYAGIII!" (I did it dad!) it's just funny when he does it... Joe's is really funny, he pulls his pants down and moons you. ^_^ I don't think Dan's taunt after throw adds to the meter because it's an auto-taunt like a part of the move... I'll load up my CvS Pro before I go out tonight and check it with my DC though, never thought about that... GemInite, sorry to hear about EX Raiden. I was going to try learning him, oh well... __________________ "Mata, asonde ageru wa?" Posted by ACE on June 16th, 2001 11:55 AM: the last and only person ever to taunt me in a match ended up with me beating him with my yuri against his yakuzaki the only people i ever see taunt are new players Posted by Bastion on June 16th, 2001 03:58 PM: I got pro, and it is a serious dissapointment. It's like nothing has changed! It is so much like the first game, except characters that struggled to be top teir AREN'T and Nak's timing is a bit different. My friend and I went through all the characters and the things we liked were that the ratio 4 characters were actually good, and ratio 1 characters did NO damage. I beat his (VS mode) team of EX Kyo, EX Beni, EX King, and EX Sagat with my ratio 4 Zangief (I have never played zangief ever before). But the rest of it was a bunch of completely small, and completely worthless changes. I guess if you play it then you might be better used to the juggle system in CvS2. __________________ If you live in Niagara email me : : : : : : : : : : : : Posted by shadowcharlie on June 16th, 2001 08:42 PM: taunts: i like rugals taunt, safe and when you pull off some flashy crap like level2 g pressure into genocideheaven and people who are watching respond its fun to make you dude bow (but thats because iLOOVE rugal, no matter how much they murder his omegacutter or how the slow his reaction time down) i also miss sagats special taunt from sf zero3 the one that usess a bar to power him up, 2frame invince. rate! litteraly do it right infron to blrogs dash punch and it goes right through you "giving" you a tiger uppercut and with the extra +.oo4 damage bonus (lol)i miss it so. __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. Posted by GemInite on June 17th, 2001 02:03 AM: is it just me or does Joe SUCK in CvSp? Posted by VruS on June 17th, 2001 02:07 AM: yeah I'm alive =]. Guile's taunt after some serious cornering. "c'mon rookie!". Guaranteed pissed off player =]. Posted by VruS on June 17th, 2001 02:09 AM: we'll I heard he's ok. He doesn't have all of his moves. Does he still have the adon looking one? I won't be buying CvSp because I heard it sucks and it's not in arcades either. Posted by shadowcharlie on June 17th, 2001 02:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by VruS yeah I'm alive =]. Guile's taunt after some serious cornering. "c'mon rookie!". Guaranteed pissed off player =]. HE SAYS cookie i swear it!(LOL) __________________ still c-h-a-r-l-i-e still NamCo's #1 fan.still representin' EURO gangstahs' allll around the world. All times are GMT. The time now is 04:40 AM. Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.0 Release Candidate 3 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.